Does U2 Have Anything Left to Prove? | The Interview

People have said of U2 that People have said of U2 that we're the band that people who don't we're the band that people who don't we're the band that people who don't know that they believe in God like. So, know that they believe in God like. So, know that they believe in God like. So, I think there's an element of it's it's I think there's an element of it's it's I think there's an element of it's it's it's we're it's we're it's we're >> We'd say that personally it's true, but >> We'd say that personally it's true, but >> We'd say that personally it's true, but it it it >> [laughter] >> I'm David Marchese from The New York >> I'm David Marchese from The New York Times here in the streets of Dublin for Times here in the streets of Dublin for Times here in the streets of Dublin for a U2 performance. >> [music] >> [music] >> And tomorrow I'll be talking with Bono >> And tomorrow I'll be talking with Bono >> And tomorrow I'll be talking with Bono and The Edge from the band. I traveled to Ireland I traveled to Ireland >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> to watch U2 take the city by storm. They >> to watch U2 take the city by storm. They >> to watch U2 take the city by storm. They performed at the school where they all performed at the school where they all performed at the school where they all first met. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Good to be in the market. Good to be in the market. Good to be in the market. >> [music] >> Then they gave a surprise free concert >> Then they gave a surprise free concert on the streets of the city, drawing a on the streets of the city, drawing a on the streets of the city, drawing a massive crowd. massive crowd. massive crowd. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> It's all to celebrate not just U2's 50th >> It's all to celebrate not just U2's 50th >> It's all to celebrate not just U2's 50th anniversary, but the release of their anniversary, but the release of their anniversary, but the release of their first album in eight years called first album in eight years called first album in eight years called Carnaval de Luxe. Carnaval de Luxe. Carnaval de Luxe. Bono and The Edge are the band's Bono and The Edge are the band's Bono and The Edge are the band's creative engine, and they've always been creative engine, and they've always been creative engine, and they've always been an intriguing pair to me. Bono, the an intriguing pair to me. Bono, the an intriguing pair to me. Bono, the out-there, outspoken frontman. Edge, out-there, outspoken frontman. Edge, out-there, outspoken frontman. Edge, [music] the low-key guitarist and [music] the low-key guitarist and [music] the low-key guitarist and musical mastermind. Here's my musical mastermind. Here's my musical mastermind. Here's my conversation with Bono and The Edge.

conversation with Bono and The Edge. conversation with Bono and The Edge. [music] [music] [music] But first, a quick message. If you're But first, a quick message. If you're But first, a quick message. If you're not a subscriber, we have some news for not a subscriber, we have some news for not a subscriber, we have some news for you. you. you. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> You can now explore the Times for free >> You can now explore the Times for free >> You can now explore the Times for free without paywalls during your first month without paywalls during your first month without paywalls during your first month in the New York Times [music] app. Just in the New York Times [music] app. Just in the New York Times [music] app. Just download the app, and we hope you enjoy download the app, and we hope you enjoy download the app, and we hope you enjoy it. Okay, onto the interview. it. Okay, onto the interview. it. Okay, onto the interview. >> One, two. One, two. Check. One, two. >> You You guys know we're taking the whole >> You You guys know we're taking the whole ride in this conversation, right? ride in this conversation, right? ride in this conversation, right? Okay, good. Good. Okay, good. Good. Okay, good. Good. >> You got the whole ride, okay. >> You got the whole ride, okay. >> You got the whole ride, okay. >> But thank you very much. >> But thank you very much. >> But thank you very much. >> you snowflakes, yeah. >> you snowflakes, yeah. >> you snowflakes, yeah. Come and get me if you're hard enough. Come and get me if you're hard enough. Come and get me if you're hard enough. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> So, I I want to ask you guys about um >> So, I I want to ask you guys about um >> So, I I want to ask you guys about um sort of what U2 is now 50 years after sort of what U2 is now 50 years after sort of what U2 is now 50 years after you started. And uh so, I I think of you started. And uh so, I I think of you started. And uh so, I I think of the band has at the band has at the band has at various times, you know, various times, you know, various times, you know, wanting to be wanting to be wanting to be the best band in the world and wanting the best band in the world and wanting the best band in the world and wanting to be, to be, to be, you know, the biggest band in the world. you know, the biggest band in the world. you know, the biggest band in the world. And sometimes those two are the same And sometimes those two are the same And sometimes those two are the same things. Maybe sometimes those those two things. Maybe sometimes those those two things. Maybe sometimes those those two aren't. But, you know, it probably aren't. But, you know, it probably aren't. But, you know, it probably shouldn't be the case shouldn't be the case shouldn't be the case that the best and biggest rock and roll that the best and biggest rock and roll that the best and biggest rock and roll band in the world is a band that's been band in the world is a band that's been band in the world is a band that's been around for 50 years around for 50 years around for 50 years comprised of comprised of comprised of guys in their 60s. You know, I was guys in their 60s. You know, I was guys in their 60s. You know, I was thinking about like if they would be thinking about like if they would be thinking about like if they would be like if in 1976 Al Jolson like if in 1976 Al Jolson like if in 1976 Al Jolson was like was like was like >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> stomping around.

>> stomping around. >> stomping around. >> That's very, very hurtful. That is. >> That's very, very hurtful. That is. >> That's very, very hurtful. That is. >> But, but what do >> But, but what do >> But, but what do >> But fair. >> But fair. >> But fair. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Hurtful but fair is what I go for. >> Hurtful but fair is what I go for. >> Hurtful but fair is what I go for. But, what Like, what do you What do you But, what Like, what do you What do you But, what Like, what do you What do you guys think guys think guys think the purpose of U2 is right now? Like, the purpose of U2 is right now? Like, the purpose of U2 is right now? Like, what should be What should U2 be trying what should be What should U2 be trying what should be What should U2 be trying to be? to be? to be? >> We genuinely think that we might just >> We genuinely think that we might just >> We genuinely think that we might just write the best song we've ever written write the best song we've ever written write the best song we've ever written next week next week next week or do the best show we've ever done or do the best show we've ever done or do the best show we've ever done next tour. next tour. next tour. And when we talk about the best, we're And when we talk about the best, we're And when we talk about the best, we're not thinking not thinking not thinking um about rock and roll in its in its um about rock and roll in its in its um about rock and roll in its in its kind of kind of kind of just the song. just the song. just the song. We're thinking about We're thinking about We're thinking about our favorite bands. And I always think our favorite bands. And I always think our favorite bands. And I always think when I'm in the audience at a show, what when I'm in the audience at a show, what when I'm in the audience at a show, what would I want to see and hear? So, it would I want to see and hear? So, it would I want to see and hear? So, it it's it's it's like where rock and roll it's it's it's like where rock and roll it's it's it's like where rock and roll collides with activism, where rock and collides with activism, where rock and collides with activism, where rock and roll collides with roll collides with roll collides with ideas from fine arts. And I And I ideas from fine arts. And I And I ideas from fine arts. And I And I suppose a transcendent aspect as well, suppose a transcendent aspect as well, suppose a transcendent aspect as well, the the the We've never We've never We've never thought it was necessary to um hold back thought it was necessary to um hold back thought it was necessary to um hold back our own kind of our own kind of our own kind of spiritual quests and questionings from spiritual quests and questionings from spiritual quests and questionings from our work. They are all expressed.

our work. They are all expressed. our work. They are all expressed. And when And when And when when we hear a song when we hear a song when we hear a song that I think has has has a transcendent that I think has has has a transcendent that I think has has has a transcendent quality, that's that's the peak for me. quality, that's that's the peak for me. quality, that's that's the peak for me. And I I I can And I I I can And I I I can relate to it in other work, in other relate to it in other work, in other relate to it in other work, in other music from other bands. So, I I music from other bands. So, I I music from other bands. So, I I recognize it. And it's not always the recognize it. And it's not always the recognize it. And it's not always the obvious person. It might be a Van obvious person. It might be a Van obvious person. It might be a Van Morrison or you know, Morrison or you know, Morrison or you know, gospel songs, whatever. gospel songs, whatever. gospel songs, whatever. So, I really think we're in with a shout So, I really think we're in with a shout So, I really think we're in with a shout of of of of the best songs we've ever written, of the best songs we've ever written, of the best songs we've ever written, the best tours we've ever done, still. the best tours we've ever done, still. the best tours we've ever done, still. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> So, that's why I'm still in this band. >> So, that's why I'm still in this band. >> So, that's why I'm still in this band. >> And >> And >> And therefore therefore therefore the shout of the best songs the shout of the best songs the shout of the best songs anyone's ever written. anyone's ever written. anyone's ever written. And that's where U2 gets really And that's where U2 gets really And that's where U2 gets really annoying. annoying. annoying. Because that grandiosity is By the way, Because that grandiosity is By the way, Because that grandiosity is By the way, it's it's in every it's it's in every it's it's in every artist who you prob- Well, not in every artist who you prob- Well, not in every artist who you prob- Well, not in every artist, but in all the artists that artist, but in all the artists that artist, but in all the artists that wanted wanted wanted go there, the Beatles or go there, the Beatles or go there, the Beatles or um Nirvana or um Nirvana or um Nirvana or I'm jealous when suddenly I'm jealous when suddenly I'm jealous when suddenly we're left out of the pop charts. That's we're left out of the pop charts. That's we're left out of the pop charts. That's a personality flaw. Cuz yeah, 66 wants a personality flaw. Cuz yeah, 66 wants a personality flaw. Cuz yeah, 66 wants and wants to storm the pop charts.

and wants to storm the pop charts. and wants to storm the pop charts. Somebody should Somebody should throw Somebody should Somebody should throw Somebody should Somebody should throw some cold water over this. some cold water over this. some cold water over this. If uh If uh If uh But actually deep down, it's because But actually deep down, it's because But actually deep down, it's because I don't want those ideas to be left out I don't want those ideas to be left out I don't want those ideas to be left out of the mainstream because my favorite of the mainstream because my favorite of the mainstream because my favorite artists stormed the mainstream. So, I artists stormed the mainstream. So, I artists stormed the mainstream. So, I think even of think even of think even of David Bowie you know, I think of his David Bowie you know, I think of his David Bowie you know, I think of his best work best work best work as being both as being both as being both experimental and innovative experimental and innovative experimental and innovative so, stuff he did, you know, so, stuff he did, you know, so, stuff he did, you know, [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] but also but also but also he was he want he was he wanted to make he was he want he was he wanted to make he was he want he was he wanted to make sense. And and sense. And and sense. And and even into his 40s, 50s, he could just even into his 40s, 50s, he could just even into his 40s, 50s, he could just throw out a perfect pop song. throw out a perfect pop song. throw out a perfect pop song. And And And I mean, maybe that goes back to the I mean, maybe that goes back to the I mean, maybe that goes back to the Beatles, does it? That thing of the Beatles, does it? That thing of the Beatles, does it? That thing of the White Album, he could do Dear Prudence White Album, he could do Dear Prudence White Album, he could do Dear Prudence and Helter Skelter on the same and and Helter Skelter on the same and and Helter Skelter on the same and number nine. number nine. number nine. >> But the Beatles existed for eight years. >> But the Beatles existed for eight years. >> But the Beatles existed for eight years. That's That's a big difference. That's a That's That's a big difference. That's a That's That's a big difference. That's a big difference. big difference. big difference. >> What? >> What? >> What? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Somebody broke up the Beatles. >> Somebody broke up the Beatles. >> Somebody broke up the Beatles. >> Well, when you say there are there are >> Well, when you say there are there are >> Well, when you say there are there are ideas that you want ideas that you want ideas that you want to be in the mainstream, ideas that you to be in the mainstream, ideas that you to be in the mainstream, ideas that you have that you want have that you want have that you want to interact with people, what what are to interact with people, what what are to interact with people, what what are some of those ideas now?

some of those ideas now? some of those ideas now? >> Well, how about just a collective >> Well, how about just a collective >> Well, how about just a collective approach? That'd be interesting. approach? That'd be interesting. approach? That'd be interesting. Um and that there's nowhere we won't go Um and that there's nowhere we won't go Um and that there's nowhere we won't go as artists in terms of our intellectual as artists in terms of our intellectual as artists in terms of our intellectual curiosity. And I've you know, this sort curiosity. And I've you know, this sort curiosity. And I've you know, this sort of of of the the the the the metaphysical thing, you know, the the metaphysical thing, you know, the the metaphysical thing, you know, the gospel side of of U2. That was only the gospel side of of U2. That was only the gospel side of of U2. That was only allowed if you were black in rock and allowed if you were black in rock and allowed if you were black in rock and roll. roll. roll. You can't be like white people talking You can't be like white people talking You can't be like white people talking about God cuz generally white people who about God cuz generally white people who about God cuz generally white people who talk about God make our audience very talk about God make our audience very talk about God make our audience very nervous, you know? nervous, you know? nervous, you know? Uh but not in the you know, black church Uh but not in the you know, black church Uh but not in the you know, black church say in America. Well, you can you say in America. Well, you can you say in America. Well, you can you imagine imagine imagine coming to the United States and we just coming to the United States and we just coming to the United States and we just seen those tele-evangelists. So, we're seen those tele-evangelists. So, we're seen those tele-evangelists. So, we're like, "Wow, these people are really in like, "Wow, these people are really in like, "Wow, these people are really in deep trouble." deep trouble." deep trouble." And then you walk into a black church And then you walk into a black church And then you walk into a black church and you hear that first of all, and you hear that first of all, and you hear that first of all, the sort of abandonment of the singing the sort of abandonment of the singing the sort of abandonment of the singing and the and the and the that feeling, you know? And it's fervor, that feeling, you know? And it's fervor, that feeling, you know? And it's fervor, but it's not freaky fervor.

but it's not freaky fervor. but it's not freaky fervor. Um Um Um so that was so that was so that was that that was a real joy. So, being able that that was a real joy. So, being able that that was a real joy. So, being able to sing songs of faith to sing songs of faith to sing songs of faith and devotion and devotion and devotion and sing songs and sing songs and sing songs of doubt. of doubt. of doubt. You know, to put You know, to put You know, to put the gospel with the blues, which is rock the gospel with the blues, which is rock the gospel with the blues, which is rock and roll. You know, that they all cliche and roll. You know, that they all cliche and roll. You know, that they all cliche gospel gospel gospel gospel music we're so the blues is the shouting at we're so the blues is the shouting at God part of this, you know, and goes God part of this, you know, and goes God part of this, you know, and goes back to the Psalms of David goes back to back to the Psalms of David goes back to back to the Psalms of David goes back to those books of wisdom. And then you just those books of wisdom. And then you just those books of wisdom. And then you just want to write a song about a girl. want to write a song about a girl. want to write a song about a girl. And it took us a while by the way just And it took us a while by the way just And it took us a while by the way just to get to the girl bit. We started with to get to the girl bit. We started with to get to the girl bit. We started with God and then ended up with girls. God and then ended up with girls. God and then ended up with girls. But I would just say yeah, there's no But I would just say yeah, there's no But I would just say yeah, there's no way you can't go including the pop way you can't go including the pop way you can't go including the pop charts. My constant argument is this charts. My constant argument is this charts. My constant argument is this okay? I'm I don't know if you feel the okay? I'm I don't know if you feel the okay? I'm I don't know if you feel the same way. same way. same way. It's just It's just It's just don't seed them don't seed them don't seed them to just those to just those to just those those pop mechanics.

those pop mechanics. those pop mechanics. Don't. Don't. Don't. It's like get those get those like It's like get those get those like It's like get those get those like hip-hop did it. hip-hop did it. hip-hop did it. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And got kind of revolutionary ideas on >> And got kind of revolutionary ideas on >> And got kind of revolutionary ideas on the radio, but a lot of indie the radio, but a lot of indie the radio, but a lot of indie stuff just gave up. They weren't even so stuff just gave up. They weren't even so stuff just gave up. They weren't even so it was just yeah, you know, we'll give it was just yeah, you know, we'll give it was just yeah, you know, we'll give that we'll that we'll that we'll that that's over that the chance of that that that's over that the chance of that that that's over that the chance of that argument. argument. argument. >> Yeah, exactly. You said that >> Yeah, exactly. You said that >> Yeah, exactly. You said that um um um it it it it it it it it it maybe you know, sort of maybe you know, sort of maybe you know, sort of religiousness or or God uh religiousness or or God uh religiousness or or God uh in the music can be a little in the music can be a little in the music can be a little uncomfortable for for your audience uncomfortable for for your audience uncomfortable for for your audience sometimes. And I I maybe some segment of sometimes. And I I maybe some segment of sometimes. And I I maybe some segment of your audience, but I would actually your audience, but I would actually your audience, but I would actually argue that the religious argue that the religious argue that the religious impulse behind your music is hugely impulse behind your music is hugely impulse behind your music is hugely important to your audience and it's a important to your audience and it's a important to your audience and it's a big part of big part of big part of why why why you're as a as popular as you are and you're as a as popular as you are and you're as a as popular as you are and why people feel so closely uh connected why people feel so closely uh connected why people feel so closely uh connected to the band. You guys famously for years to the band. You guys famously for years to the band. You guys famously for years would close your concerts with 40, which would close your concerts with 40, which would close your concerts with 40, which is an adaptation of a song and and the is an adaptation of a song and and the is an adaptation of a song and and the the crowd would the crowd would the crowd would sing along with it. You sing along with it. You sing along with it. You You You You You must have known that there was sort You must have known that there was sort You must have known that there was sort sort a that that was rooted in sort a that that was rooted in sort a that that was rooted in religious feeling, right? Or no?

religious feeling, right? Or no? religious feeling, right? Or no? >> I I mean, yes, >> I I mean, yes, >> I I mean, yes, we were we were we were aware of that, but we we weren't seeing aware of that, but we we weren't seeing aware of that, but we we weren't seeing it as as a selling point. We we were it as as a selling point. We we were it as as a selling point. We we were seeing it as just uh the thing we have seeing it as just uh the thing we have seeing it as just uh the thing we have to speak about because it's where we're to speak about because it's where we're to speak about because it's where we're coming from as as people. So, it would coming from as as people. So, it would coming from as as people. So, it would have been have been have been hugely hugely hugely uh dishonest to to try and sort of not uh dishonest to to try and sort of not uh dishonest to to try and sort of not have that be presented in our work. But, have that be presented in our work. But, have that be presented in our work. But, people have said of U2 that people have said of U2 that people have said of U2 that we're the band that people who don't we're the band that people who don't we're the band that people who don't know that they believe in God like. know that they believe in God like. know that they believe in God like. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> So, I think there's an element of it's >> So, I think there's an element of it's >> So, I think there's an element of it's it's it's it's it's it's it's >> I would say that personally is true, but >> I would say that personally is true, but >> I would say that personally is true, but >> Right. So, it's >> Right. So, it's >> Right. So, it's >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> it's like in in the work in such a >> it's like in in the work in such a >> it's like in in the work in such a natural way. There's no polemic there. natural way. There's no polemic there. natural way. There's no polemic there. It's just it is It's just it is It's just it is uh our our uh our our uh our our our search, our inquiry. And what what our search, our inquiry. And what what our search, our inquiry. And what what people don't understand, well, certainly people don't understand, well, certainly people don't understand, well, certainly I can speak personally about this I can speak personally about this I can speak personally about this cuz we're not a part of any religious cuz we're not a part of any religious cuz we're not a part of any religious movement, doctrine, movement, doctrine, movement, doctrine, um sect.

um sect. um sect. It's it's the same journey, it's the It's it's the same journey, it's the It's it's the same journey, it's the same same same quest. And it involves so much doubt. quest. And it involves so much doubt. quest. And it involves so much doubt. And it has to, I think, because if it's And it has to, I think, because if it's And it has to, I think, because if it's if it's not dogma, then it's constantly if it's not dogma, then it's constantly if it's not dogma, then it's constantly in flux, in flux, in flux, up for grabs. So, I would say I'm sort up for grabs. So, I would say I'm sort up for grabs. So, I would say I'm sort of agnostic about half of the week, and of agnostic about half of the week, and of agnostic about half of the week, and then the the week, I've got an then the the week, I've got an then the the week, I've got an incredible strong faith. And but it's incredible strong faith. And but it's incredible strong faith. And but it's always changing, it's always always changing, it's always always changing, it's always ready to be upgraded. ready to be upgraded. ready to be upgraded. >> I want to ask about um failure and >> I want to ask about um failure and >> I want to ask about um failure and success. So, success. So, success. So, obviously, U2 has had enormous obviously, U2 has had enormous obviously, U2 has had enormous successes. You know, successes. You know, successes. You know, I would probably you know, War is an I would probably you know, War is an I would probably you know, War is an early high point, and then, you know, early high point, and then, you know, early high point, and then, you know, Joshua Tree, and Achtung Baby, and the Joshua Tree, and Achtung Baby, and the Joshua Tree, and Achtung Baby, and the Zoo Europa Tour, and All That You Can't Zoo Europa Tour, and All That You Can't Zoo Europa Tour, and All That You Can't Leave Behind and and also there have Leave Behind and and also there have Leave Behind and and also there have been been been uh uh uh I don't know, probably not just as many I don't know, probably not just as many I don't know, probably not just as many ambitious failures, but there have been ambitious failures, but there have been ambitious failures, but there have been failures, too, which um I don't have to failures, too, which um I don't have to failures, too, which um I don't have to You know what they are.

You know what they are. You know what they are. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> There's a lot you wouldn't even have >> There's a lot you wouldn't even have >> There's a lot you wouldn't even have seen or heard of. seen or heard of. seen or heard of. >> But in in terms of of If we're talking >> But in in terms of of If we're talking >> But in in terms of of If we're talking about success and failure, about success and failure, about success and failure, what what does what what does what what does success success success or failure for the new album look or failure for the new album look or failure for the new album look [clears throat] like? [clears throat] like? [clears throat] like? >> I I feel it's already a success myself. >> I I feel it's already a success myself. >> I I feel it's already a success myself. >> And because >> And because >> And because >> I think because of the >> I think because of the >> I think because of the degree of um degree of um degree of um time and effort and and and dedication time and effort and and and dedication time and effort and and and dedication to to the work to to the work to to the work and I can stand over it in a way that um and I can stand over it in a way that um and I can stand over it in a way that um I don't really care that much what I don't really care that much what I don't really care that much what happens now because happens now because happens now because I know it's really great. I know it's really great. I know it's really great. I could say that, but I wouldn't mean I could say that, but I wouldn't mean I could say that, but I wouldn't mean >> You wouldn't mean it. >> You wouldn't mean it. >> You wouldn't mean it. >> He actually [laughter] does, believe it. >> He actually [laughter] does, believe it. >> He actually [laughter] does, believe it. Um Um Um >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a bit like you know, you're a It's a bit like you know, you're a It's a bit like you know, you're a comedian and you you you you you tell a comedian and you you you you you tell a comedian and you you you you you tell a you've got a routine, you get to the you've got a routine, you get to the you've got a routine, you get to the joke, you know, and the the punchline joke, you know, and the the punchline joke, you know, and the the punchline arrives and arrives and arrives and if no one laughs if no one laughs if no one laughs it's just not quite the same.

it's just not quite the same. it's just not quite the same. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Um and it's still funny on the page, >> Um and it's still funny on the page, >> Um and it's still funny on the page, except if no one laughs, it's kind of a except if no one laughs, it's kind of a except if no one laughs, it's kind of a shame. And shame. And shame. And some of the songs some of the songs some of the songs I just would love to see even other I just would love to see even other I just would love to see even other another another artist take them another another artist take them another another artist take them somewhere. somewhere. somewhere. You know, cuz I know um You know, cuz I know um You know, cuz I know um it it'll be tricky. So, there's there's it it'll be tricky. So, there's there's it it'll be tricky. So, there's there's a song we we just talked about gospel a song we we just talked about gospel a song we we just talked about gospel music a minute ago. music a minute ago. music a minute ago. This is a song called Glorify on the This is a song called Glorify on the This is a song called Glorify on the album. And we [snorts] really ended up album. And we [snorts] really ended up album. And we [snorts] really ended up putting what what's like a demo on the putting what what's like a demo on the putting what what's like a demo on the album. album. album. It's really a minimal uh expression of It's really a minimal uh expression of It's really a minimal uh expression of the song. the song. the song. That's a screaming That's a screaming That's a screaming dance floor hit. dance floor hit. dance floor hit. And if it owes to anyone, it's probably And if it owes to anyone, it's probably And if it owes to anyone, it's probably Norman Cook, Fatboy Slim, Praise You. Norman Cook, Fatboy Slim, Praise You. Norman Cook, Fatboy Slim, Praise You. That's how That's how That's how I I just imagine that. And it's a it's a I I just imagine that. And it's a it's a I I just imagine that. And it's a it's a nice twist on a gospel song. It's sung nice twist on a gospel song. It's sung nice twist on a gospel song. It's sung from the divine point of view. It's from the divine point of view. It's from the divine point of view. It's like, "You're nothing but bad news, the like, "You're nothing but bad news, the like, "You're nothing but bad news, the kind I can't refuse. It's you I choose kind I can't refuse. It's you I choose kind I can't refuse. It's you I choose to glorify." So, you can sing it to glorify." So, you can sing it to glorify." So, you can sing it to your mate on on the dance floor, your to your mate on on the dance floor, your to your mate on on the dance floor, your lover, whatever. And I lover, whatever. And I lover, whatever. And I And I must admit, there's a part of me And I must admit, there's a part of me And I must admit, there's a part of me that goes, "Fuck it. I just wish that goes, "Fuck it. I just wish that goes, "Fuck it. I just wish I wanted I want to do that version. I'm I wanted I want to do that version. I'm I wanted I want to do that version. I'm I'm not sure we can or somebody else I'm not sure we can or somebody else I'm not sure we can or somebody else could do that."

could do that." could do that." >> I think it's almost exactly 50 years ago >> I think it's almost exactly 50 years ago >> I think it's almost exactly 50 years ago today, maybe give or take a day, that today, maybe give or take a day, that today, maybe give or take a day, that you guys you guys you guys I I believe practiced for the first time I I believe practiced for the first time I I believe practiced for the first time in in in drummer Larry Mullen Jr.'s kitchen. And drummer Larry Mullen Jr.'s kitchen. And drummer Larry Mullen Jr.'s kitchen. And you guys have have talked about that you guys have have talked about that you guys have have talked about that moment before, you know, he posted a moment before, you know, he posted a moment before, you know, he posted a note in note in note in >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> asking for musicians to play with, and >> asking for musicians to play with, and >> asking for musicians to play with, and then you went into his kitchen. I think then you went into his kitchen. I think then you went into his kitchen. I think he sprayed some people who were watching he sprayed some people who were watching he sprayed some people who were watching with with a hose. But But I want to know with with a hose. But But I want to know with with a hose. But But I want to know >> we go. >> we go. >> we go. >> Some girls who were watching. Um >> Some girls who were watching. Um >> Some girls who were watching. Um Edge, I don't I don't know if you know Edge, I don't I don't know if you know Edge, I don't I don't know if you know this, but in in Bono's memoir, this, but in in Bono's memoir, this, but in in Bono's memoir, Surrender, he he writes about when you Surrender, he he writes about when you Surrender, he he writes about when you guys were teenagers that you and your guys were teenagers that you and your guys were teenagers that you and your brother Dick had a reputation as the way brother Dick had a reputation as the way brother Dick had a reputation as the way he put it was, you know, weirdos. he put it was, you know, weirdos. he put it was, you know, weirdos. Pleasant weirdos, but weirdos Pleasant weirdos, but weirdos Pleasant weirdos, but weirdos nonetheless. I think this is maybe in nonetheless. I think this is maybe in nonetheless. I think this is maybe in reference to you and your brother reference to you and your brother reference to you and your brother blowing up your family's garden shed. blowing up your family's garden shed. blowing up your family's garden shed. But But what was Do you remember having But But what was Do you remember having But But what was Do you remember having any sort of sense of Bono's reputation? any sort of sense of Bono's reputation? any sort of sense of Bono's reputation? What did you think of him before you all What did you think of him before you all What did you think of him before you all started playing together? started playing together? started playing together? >> well, yeah. But first of all, >> well, yeah. But first of all, >> well, yeah. But first of all, I I I think that I I I think that I I I think that that was absolutely valid comment from that was absolutely valid comment from that was absolutely valid comment from Bono. Um myself and my brother definitely there's myself and my brother definitely there's there is some neuro divergence there of there is some neuro divergence there of there is some neuro divergence there of some sort.

some sort. some sort. ADHD, ADHD, ADHD, I don't know, autism, whatever. So, I don't know, autism, whatever. So, I don't know, autism, whatever. So, socially speaking, we were always a socially speaking, we were always a socially speaking, we were always a little bit um little bit um little bit um a little bit on the fringe. But, yeah, a little bit on the fringe. But, yeah, a little bit on the fringe. But, yeah, fascinated with explosives. So, we did fascinated with explosives. So, we did fascinated with explosives. So, we did we did experiments a lot and uh I know we did experiments a lot and uh I know we did experiments a lot and uh I know way too much about how to blow things up way too much about how to blow things up way too much about how to blow things up than I ought to. than I ought to. than I ought to. Um but, Bono, his reputation Um but, Bono, his reputation Um but, Bono, his reputation um you know, preceded him in in my life um you know, preceded him in in my life um you know, preceded him in in my life because one of my best friends growing because one of my best friends growing because one of my best friends growing up, Shane Fogarty, went to Mount Temple up, Shane Fogarty, went to Mount Temple up, Shane Fogarty, went to Mount Temple a year ahead of me. So, I kind of a year ahead of me. So, I kind of a year ahead of me. So, I kind of quizzed him about school. Like, "What's quizzed him about school. Like, "What's quizzed him about school. Like, "What's it like?" And he says, "Ah, it's all it like?" And he says, "Ah, it's all it like?" And he says, "Ah, it's all right. It's okay, you know. You don't right. It's okay, you know. You don't right. It's okay, you know. You don't have to wear uniforms. People are very have to wear uniforms. People are very have to wear uniforms. People are very nice. And there's some, you know, nice. And there's some, you know, nice. And there's some, you know, there's some fun heads there, you know." there's some fun heads there, you know." there's some fun heads there, you know." I said, "Like who?" He says, "Ah, I said, "Like who?" He says, "Ah, I said, "Like who?" He says, "Ah, just mad [ __ ] head called Paul just mad [ __ ] head called Paul just mad [ __ ] head called Paul Hewson. He's mental, but he's good fun." Hewson. He's mental, but he's good fun." Hewson. He's mental, but he's good fun." So, I was like, So, I was like, So, I was like, even before I went, I'd heard about this even before I went, I'd heard about this even before I went, I'd heard about this character. And I guess character. And I guess character. And I guess Bono's always been that Bono's always been that Bono's always been that uh you know, extrovert um exhibitionist uh you know, extrovert um exhibitionist uh you know, extrovert um exhibitionist performer.

performer. performer. And he certainly had that age 13 And he certainly had that age 13 And he certainly had that age 13 already. already. already. >> You guys have >> You guys have >> You guys have you know, you've you've documented your you know, you've you've documented your you know, you've you've documented your your career together your career together your career together in a bunch of of different ways, in in a bunch of of different ways, in in a bunch of of different ways, in documentary films and in uh the YouTube documentary films and in uh the YouTube documentary films and in uh the YouTube by YouTube book, you know, obviously in by YouTube book, you know, obviously in by YouTube book, you know, obviously in in count- countless interviews. And to in count- countless interviews. And to in count- countless interviews. And to are there ways in which are there ways in which are there ways in which your your your memories and understanding of memories and understanding of memories and understanding of you know, the story of how you came you know, the story of how you came you know, the story of how you came together has been superseded by like the together has been superseded by like the together has been superseded by like the legend and the lore of the story? legend and the lore of the story? legend and the lore of the story? >> we are not superheroes? >> we are not superheroes? >> we are not superheroes? >> Yeah, you were suggesting that. >> Yeah, you were suggesting that. >> Yeah, you were suggesting that. >> I always >> I always >> I always >> The truth. So, it's in some sort of >> The truth. So, it's in some sort of >> The truth. So, it's in some sort of mythological mythological mythological sense, if I'm honest. sense, if I'm honest. sense, if I'm honest. The names, think about it. The names, think about it. The names, think about it. It's just we wish to escape It's just we wish to escape It's just we wish to escape suburbia and discover this suburbia and discover this suburbia and discover this you know, this this other selves really. you know, this this other selves really. you know, this this other selves really. And and we gave those other selves And and we gave those other selves And and we gave those other selves names.

names. names. And you know, that's And you know, that's And you know, that's you know, the Ramones were a you know, the Ramones were a you know, the Ramones were a were the sort of key for us. And that were the sort of key for us. And that were the sort of key for us. And that they are indeed just really well drawn they are indeed just really well drawn they are indeed just really well drawn characters, the Ramones. characters, the Ramones. characters, the Ramones. >> Wait, but what you you just said about >> Wait, but what you you just said about >> Wait, but what you you just said about coming up with the the fictional names. coming up with the the fictional names. coming up with the the fictional names. This always killed me about the band. Is This always killed me about the band. Is This always killed me about the band. Is that you know, Bono, Edge, and then Adam that you know, Bono, Edge, and then Adam that you know, Bono, Edge, and then Adam and Larry. and Larry. and Larry. >> Well, you know why? >> Well, you know why? >> Well, you know why? Was there any discussion that they Was there any discussion that they Was there any discussion that they should have names too? should have names too? should have names too? >> Well, first of all, we need to explain >> Well, first of all, we need to explain >> Well, first of all, we need to explain the whole name thing. I mean, the whole name thing. I mean, the whole name thing. I mean, what was true of us at that age was that what was true of us at that age was that what was true of us at that age was that we laughed a lot and we would laugh at we laughed a lot and we would laugh at we laughed a lot and we would laugh at each other and ourselves. And that was each other and ourselves. And that was each other and ourselves. And that was the deal. You could laugh at others if the deal. You could laugh at others if the deal. You could laugh at others if you were prepared to to allow them to you were prepared to to allow them to you were prepared to to allow them to laugh at you. So, the names were not laugh at you. So, the names were not laugh at you. So, the names were not necessarily necessarily necessarily designed designed designed for their sort of heroic aspect. So, for their sort of heroic aspect. So, for their sort of heroic aspect. So, Bono's Bono's Bono's very first name was in fact Steinrick very first name was in fact Steinrick very first name was in fact Steinrick Van Heishon Bang Bang Bang.

Van Heishon Bang Bang Bang. Van Heishon Bang Bang Bang. And then And then And then I was in Shikoku for a while before I I was in Shikoku for a while before I I was in Shikoku for a while before I became The Edge. became The Edge. became The Edge. Adam for a while was known as Mrs. Adam for a while was known as Mrs. Adam for a while was known as Mrs. Burns. Burns. Burns. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> And Larry for some reason was known as >> And Larry for some reason was known as >> And Larry for some reason was known as the Jam Jar for a while. the Jam Jar for a while. the Jam Jar for a while. And so, this is all like And so, this is all like And so, this is all like because we just loved to laugh. We were because we just loved to laugh. We were because we just loved to laugh. We were borrowing a lot from like Monty Python borrowing a lot from like Monty Python borrowing a lot from like Monty Python and various and various and various >> Yeah, it's about inventing >> Yeah, it's about inventing >> Yeah, it's about inventing you know, who you want to be rather than you know, who you want to be rather than you know, who you want to be rather than who you were given who you were given who you were given when you were born at a certain point, when you were born at a certain point, when you were born at a certain point, place and time. place and time. place and time. >> When you and I spoke last for the the in >> When you and I spoke last for the the in >> When you and I spoke last for the the in in setting similar to this or around the in setting similar to this or around the in setting similar to this or around the time of your book. time of your book. time of your book. >> It was a real pub. It was Jimmy's Corner >> It was a real pub. It was Jimmy's Corner >> It was a real pub. It was Jimmy's Corner pub, the boxing bar. You've been there. pub, the boxing bar. You've been there. pub, the boxing bar. You've been there. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And many times great jukebox. This >> And many times great jukebox. This >> And many times great jukebox. This This can be a real pub, but the New York This can be a real pub, but the New York This can be a real pub, but the New York Times won't let us have a drink, right? Times won't let us have a drink, right? Times won't let us have a drink, right? >> we when we spoke at that time, >> we when we spoke at that time, >> we when we spoke at that time, um you had told me that, you know, um you had told me that, you know, um you had told me that, you know, you had been working on Songs of Ascent, you had been working on Songs of Ascent, you had been working on Songs of Ascent, but then thought, "Well, you know, we but then thought, "Well, you know, we but then thought, "Well, you know, we need an album of need an album of need an album of sort of sort of sort of rude uh guitar music." And then rude uh guitar music." And then rude uh guitar music." And then unreasonable unreasonable unreasonable guitar music. And then guitar music. And then guitar music. And then then I saw somewhere, maybe it was you then I saw somewhere, maybe it was you then I saw somewhere, maybe it was you actually said that you guys had then actually said that you guys had then actually said that you guys had then been working on an album of been working on an album of been working on an album of I think it was it was called Sci-Fi I think it was it was called Sci-Fi I think it was it was called Sci-Fi Irish Folk with with Brian Eno. And of Irish Folk with with Brian Eno. And of Irish Folk with with Brian Eno. And of course we've arrived at Carnival De course we've arrived at Carnival De course we've arrived at Carnival De Luxe. So so in in just a

Luxe. So so in in just a Luxe. So so in in just a like in a practical way, how like in a practical way, how like in a practical way, how can you describe like when the concept can you describe like when the concept can you describe like when the concept changes? Like does does Bono just show changes? Like does does Bono just show changes? Like does does Bono just show up one day and say, "Guys, we're up one day and say, "Guys, we're up one day and say, "Guys, we're scrapping Sci-Fi Irish Folk. We're doing scrapping Sci-Fi Irish Folk. We're doing scrapping Sci-Fi Irish Folk. We're doing Carnival." And how does how does it Carnival." And how does how does it Carnival." And how does how does it actually work? actually work? actually work? >> I think it's really >> I think it's really >> I think it's really music tells you. And music tells you. And music tells you. And as we were working on those projects, we as we were working on those projects, we as we were working on those projects, we were it was it was pure creative were it was it was pure creative were it was it was pure creative experimentation and and exploration. experimentation and and exploration. experimentation and and exploration. There was no There was no There was no deadline, there was no nothing booked or deadline, there was no nothing booked or deadline, there was no nothing booked or committed to. It's like we were committed to. It's like we were committed to. It's like we were exploring exploring exploring uh in a really fun way with with some of uh in a really fun way with with some of uh in a really fun way with with some of the people that we love to work with the people that we love to work with the people that we love to work with Brian Eno. Brian Eno. Brian Eno. Um we did some stuff with Johnny McDaid, Um we did some stuff with Johnny McDaid, Um we did some stuff with Johnny McDaid, um Ed Sheeran. We did some stuff um Ed Sheeran. We did some stuff um Ed Sheeran. We did some stuff with Martin Garrix. I I had also spent with Martin Garrix. I I had also spent with Martin Garrix. I I had also spent the the whole pandemic lockdown just the the whole pandemic lockdown just the the whole pandemic lockdown just working on music. So we had this working on music. So we had this working on music. So we had this this beautiful opportunity to to just this beautiful opportunity to to just this beautiful opportunity to to just create with no agenda and then just kind create with no agenda and then just kind create with no agenda and then just kind of see where it took us. If you look at of see where it took us. If you look at of see where it took us. If you look at the Carnaval de Luze the Carnaval de Luze the Carnaval de Luze 12-track record, but then you look at 12-track record, but then you look at 12-track record, but then you look at the two EPs, and they naturally the two EPs, and they naturally the two EPs, and they naturally seemed to coincide with some of these seemed to coincide with some of these seemed to coincide with some of these other other other moments in the in the ecclesiastical moments in the in the ecclesiastical moments in the in the ecclesiastical sort of calendar. You know, the days of sort of calendar. You know, the days of sort of calendar. You know, the days of ashes sort of a ashes sort of a ashes sort of a a time of a time of a time of crisis, of reflection, uh and so the crisis, of reflection, uh and so the crisis, of reflection, uh and so the political songs seemed to make perfect political songs seemed to make perfect political songs seemed to make perfect sense there, and then

sense there, and then sense there, and then Easter Lily, these reflective Easter Lily, these reflective Easter Lily, these reflective attempts at dealing with attempts at dealing with attempts at dealing with the bigger questions, these these other the bigger questions, these these other the bigger questions, these these other songs felt like they were part of that. songs felt like they were part of that. songs felt like they were part of that. But, But, But, what we had decided what we had decided what we had decided is that the album is that the album is that the album should be a countervailing should be a countervailing should be a countervailing mood to the times, which the times are mood to the times, which the times are mood to the times, which the times are an anxious an anxious an anxious I would say I would say I would say despondent time. Like, people are really despondent time. Like, people are really despondent time. Like, people are really a bit lost, and we were like, a bit lost, and we were like, a bit lost, and we were like, "What is What is that we can help here "What is What is that we can help here "What is What is that we can help here with?" And we thought, "Well, it's an with?" And we thought, "Well, it's an with?" And we thought, "Well, it's an album that's a party, a celebration, a album that's a party, a celebration, a album that's a party, a celebration, a a sort of bringing people together, a a sort of bringing people together, a a sort of bringing people together, a gathering around gathering around gathering around our our our our common aspirations would our our our our common aspirations would our our our our common aspirations would be the thing to do." And that be the thing to do." And that be the thing to do." And that that seemed to us Carnaval de Luze was that seemed to us Carnaval de Luze was that seemed to us Carnaval de Luze was the perfect way to describe that. the perfect way to describe that. the perfect way to describe that. >> There's a defiance to this, too. There's >> There's a defiance to this, too. There's >> There's a defiance to this, too. There's a quote a quote a quote I hope I put [clears throat] it in the I hope I put [clears throat] it in the I hope I put [clears throat] it in the liner notes. I meant to. liner notes. I meant to. liner notes. I meant to. >> Is it the Dan Savage quote that you're >> Is it the Dan Savage quote that you're >> Is it the Dan Savage quote that you're >> Dan Savage, yeah, which is >> Dan Savage, yeah, which is >> Dan Savage, yeah, which is you know, he he was an AIDS activist in you know, he he was an AIDS activist in you know, he he was an AIDS activist in San Francisco, right? You know, San Francisco, right? You know, San Francisco, right? You know, in the middle of that in the middle of that in the middle of that um uh crisis. And he said, you know, "In um uh crisis. And he said, you know, "In um uh crisis. And he said, you know, "In the morning, the morning, the morning, you know, we would you know, we would you know, we would bury our friends.

bury our friends. bury our friends. In the afternoon, we would go out to In the afternoon, we would go out to In the afternoon, we would go out to protest, you know, so we'd have less protest, you know, so we'd have less protest, you know, so we'd have less people to bury. Then in the night, in people to bury. Then in the night, in people to bury. Then in the night, in the evenings, we would go out to dance the evenings, we would go out to dance the evenings, we would go out to dance because because because the dance was what we were fighting the dance was what we were fighting the dance was what we were fighting for." for." for." I loved that so much. That is not I loved that so much. That is not I loved that so much. That is not surrendering to the melancholy. surrendering to the melancholy. surrendering to the melancholy. That's the defiance. And if you go, That's the defiance. And if you go, That's the defiance. And if you go, again, sorry to do this as an Irish again, sorry to do this as an Irish again, sorry to do this as an Irish person, but go to the Black Church person, but go to the Black Church person, but go to the Black Church during civil rights, they're up, sly in during civil rights, they're up, sly in during civil rights, they're up, sly in the family stone, no minor chords. It's the family stone, no minor chords. It's the family stone, no minor chords. It's like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, wow. Um, dance to the music. That's wow. Um, dance to the music. That's wow. Um, dance to the music. That's carnival. And it's defiant joy, the carnival. And it's defiant joy, the carnival. And it's defiant joy, the thing we were looking for. thing we were looking for. thing we were looking for. >> Where's the line between >> Where's the line between >> Where's the line between >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> defiance of the kind that you're >> defiance of the kind that you're >> defiance of the kind that you're describing and, describing and, describing and, you know, fiddling while Rome burns? you know, fiddling while Rome burns? you know, fiddling while Rome burns? What do you think, Nero? What do you think, Nero? What do you think, Nero? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Well, I think, um, one is is is actually >> Well, I think, um, one is is is actually >> Well, I think, um, one is is is actually to be in denial.

to be in denial. to be in denial. Um, and one is to be aware, fully aware, Um, and one is to be aware, fully aware, Um, and one is to be aware, fully aware, to stare darkness in the face and to to stare darkness in the face and to to stare darkness in the face and to still choose joy. That's the difference. still choose joy. That's the difference. still choose joy. That's the difference. The other is to pretend everything's The other is to pretend everything's The other is to pretend everything's fine and fine and fine and hide in your cave. I think hide in your cave. I think hide in your cave. I think technology is a big problem right now. technology is a big problem right now. technology is a big problem right now. Um, social media. Um, social media. Um, social media. People are in their heads too much. People are in their heads too much. People are in their heads too much. They're in their part of the They're in their part of the They're in their part of the the echo chamber of their own algorithm the echo chamber of their own algorithm the echo chamber of their own algorithm too much. Um, I think what's really too much. Um, I think what's really too much. Um, I think what's really important is the reset. And it could be, important is the reset. And it could be, important is the reset. And it could be, I think rock and roll concerts are a I think rock and roll concerts are a I think rock and roll concerts are a great example of that, festivals. great example of that, festivals. great example of that, festivals. But I think, you know, we've But I think, you know, we've But I think, you know, we've we are so much more capable than we we are so much more capable than we we are so much more capable than we are led to believe. And I think are led to believe. And I think are led to believe. And I think by being isolated and by allowing the by being isolated and by allowing the by being isolated and by allowing the kind of that that the wave of negativity kind of that that the wave of negativity kind of that that the wave of negativity to to go on unchallenged, people are to to go on unchallenged, people are to to go on unchallenged, people are feeling feeling feeling disempowered, um, dejected. They don't disempowered, um, dejected. They don't disempowered, um, dejected. They don't understand that they can be part of understand that they can be part of understand that they can be part of something great. And I think that's something great. And I think that's something great. And I think that's what's really positive about what's really positive about what's really positive about rock and roll shows and and festivals is rock and roll shows and and festivals is rock and roll shows and and festivals is it it it gives people that sense of agency again.

gives people that sense of agency again. gives people that sense of agency again. >> Rage, going to rage is part of this? >> Rage, going to rage is part of this? >> Rage, going to rage is part of this? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> The rage rage is part of the >> The rage rage is part of the >> The rage rage is part of the the right response. You know, rage rage the right response. You know, rage rage the right response. You know, rage rage anger is okay. anger is okay. anger is okay. I'm I'm actually I'm I'm actually I'm I'm actually the parade I'm not I'm trying to rein is the parade I'm not I'm trying to rein is the parade I'm not I'm trying to rein is the melancholy. the melancholy. the melancholy. The sort of the surrendering to The sort of the surrendering to The sort of the surrendering to melancholy. We do, in our bands, have melancholy. We do, in our bands, have melancholy. We do, in our bands, have those songs. The keening, as they call those songs. The keening, as they call those songs. The keening, as they call it in Ireland, that's the wailing, you it in Ireland, that's the wailing, you it in Ireland, that's the wailing, you know, we do. know, we do. know, we do. And there's a place for them. And there's a place for them. And there's a place for them. But But But it's so much better. The the punk rock it's so much better. The the punk rock it's so much better. The the punk rock of it of it of it was turning rage into beautiful was turning rage into beautiful was turning rage into beautiful 45 rock, you know, rock and roll single. 45 rock, you know, rock and roll single. 45 rock, you know, rock and roll single. Wow. Wow. Wow. But But But to yeah, surrender to the melancholy is to yeah, surrender to the melancholy is to yeah, surrender to the melancholy is what we're trying to avoid. what we're trying to avoid. what we're trying to avoid. >> You you you talk about the the album as >> You you you talk about the the album as >> You you you talk about the the album as um um um sort of sort of sort of being rooted in a in a kind of defiance being rooted in a in a kind of defiance being rooted in a in a kind of defiance in in a way. And and in in a way. And and in in a way. And and I think in that sense you could one I think in that sense you could one I think in that sense you could one could almost think of it as like a a could almost think of it as like a a could almost think of it as like a a protest album.

protest album. protest album. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But but it's a it's a protest album >> But but it's a it's a protest album >> But but it's a it's a protest album where you know, there are like no proper where you know, there are like no proper where you know, there are like no proper nouns. You know, you're not saying who nouns. You know, you're not saying who nouns. You know, you're not saying who you're protesting against or or naming you're protesting against or or naming you're protesting against or or naming anyone anyone anyone explicitly. And um explicitly. And um explicitly. And um I'm thinking of of this in in the I'm thinking of of this in in the I'm thinking of of this in in the context of of just um some of your context of of just um some of your context of of just um some of your peers at the top of the rock and roll peers at the top of the rock and roll peers at the top of the rock and roll pyramid where, you know, Bruce pyramid where, you know, Bruce pyramid where, you know, Bruce Springsteen for example, this year was Springsteen for example, this year was Springsteen for example, this year was out on the road where he would literally out on the road where he would literally out on the road where he would literally give speeches uh give speeches uh give speeches uh railing against, you know, Trump and his railing against, you know, Trump and his railing against, you know, Trump and his administration and it's it's policies. administration and it's it's policies. administration and it's it's policies. Um Um Um And and on the other side I spoke to And and on the other side I spoke to And and on the other side I spoke to Mick Jagger earlier this year and and I Mick Jagger earlier this year and and I Mick Jagger earlier this year and and I asked him a question about the function asked him a question about the function asked him a question about the function of of rock stars. And he wasn't talking of of rock stars. And he wasn't talking of of rock stars. And he wasn't talking about Springsteen in particular, but he about Springsteen in particular, but he about Springsteen in particular, but he basically said, "Hey, I'm here to help basically said, "Hey, I'm here to help basically said, "Hey, I'm here to help you have a good time. Uh nobody wants to you have a good time. Uh nobody wants to you have a good time. Uh nobody wants to be lectured. And I kind of wondered if be lectured. And I kind of wondered if be lectured. And I kind of wondered if making an album of making an album of making an album of defiant joy, protest music, defiant joy, protest music, defiant joy, protest music, sort of which is politically galvanizing sort of which is politically galvanizing sort of which is politically galvanizing without actually mentioning politics without actually mentioning politics without actually mentioning politics ever is was your way of trying to walk a ever is was your way of trying to walk a ever is was your way of trying to walk a middle path there.

middle path there. middle path there. >> No. >> No. >> No. Um it's picking the fight with Um it's picking the fight with Um it's picking the fight with the the the author of all of this author of all of this author of all of this mess mess mess that we that we that we >> Which is in heaven. >> Which is in heaven. >> Which is in heaven. >> Who's the author? >> Who's the author? >> Who's the author? >> I mean, it's the big guy. >> I mean, it's the big guy. >> I mean, it's the big guy. >> So, I you know, I I found believing in >> So, I you know, I I found believing in >> So, I you know, I I found believing in God or that God is love or love is God, God or that God is love or love is God, God or that God is love or love is God, I found that I found that I found that quite quite quite unusually easy in in in my my life, unusually easy in in in my my life, unusually easy in in in my my life, [clears throat] but the concept of evil, [clears throat] but the concept of evil, [clears throat] but the concept of evil, I've that's that was I was very tricky I've that's that was I was very tricky I've that's that was I was very tricky for me. I just wasn't it wasn't as easy for me. I just wasn't it wasn't as easy for me. I just wasn't it wasn't as easy to to digest. And so, to to digest. And so, to to digest. And so, in in in I think it's in it is in If the world is I think it's in it is in If the world is I think it's in it is in If the world is at war, we better not be. at war, we better not be. at war, we better not be. >> Just one of the songs from the new >> Just one of the songs from the new >> Just one of the songs from the new album. album. album. >> Um yeah. [clears throat] >> Um yeah. [clears throat] >> Um yeah. [clears throat] Yeah, yeah. I think the line goes, um I Yeah, yeah. I think the line goes, um I Yeah, yeah. I think the line goes, um I [clears throat] want to speak to the [clears throat] want to speak to the [clears throat] want to speak to the spirit. spirit. spirit. Um you can feel it, but you can't hear Um you can feel it, but you can't hear Um you can feel it, but you can't hear it.

it. it. Be ye kings or queens or emperors of Be ye kings or queens or emperors of Be ye kings or queens or emperors of despair. despair. despair. We're not arguing the toss. We're not arguing the toss. We're not arguing the toss. We got some words for your boss. We got some words for your boss. We got some words for your boss. We're speaking to who speaks through We're speaking to who speaks through We're speaking to who speaks through you, to the prince of the power of the you, to the prince of the power of the you, to the prince of the power of the air. air. air. All these shimmers and these glimmers, All these shimmers and these glimmers, All these shimmers and these glimmers, mirrors that must crack, all the neon mirrors that must crack, all the neon mirrors that must crack, all the neon fizzing flickers, we're grateful for fizzing flickers, we're grateful for fizzing flickers, we're grateful for some of that. some of that. some of that. The fiction of a nation, the stories we The fiction of a nation, the stories we The fiction of a nation, the stories we don't tell, we need the light of don't tell, we need the light of don't tell, we need the light of illumination, so you can go right back illumination, so you can go right back illumination, so you can go right back to hell. to hell. to hell. If the world is at war, we better not If the world is at war, we better not If the world is at war, we better not be. be. be. So, I just felt that's what this album's So, I just felt that's what this album's So, I just felt that's what this album's about. Evil is about. Evil is about. Evil is We should be grateful it's out in the We should be grateful it's out in the We should be grateful it's out in the open. open. open. And And And um um um on on on Days of Ash, we Days of Ash, we Days of Ash, we we name names. we name names. we name names. And um I think I And um I think I And um I think I uh uh uh I don't know if if we've spoken about I don't know if if we've spoken about I don't know if if we've spoken about this publicly, but I spoke to um Renee this publicly, but I spoke to um Renee this publicly, but I spoke to um Renee Good.

Good. Good. >> Her family? You spoke to her family? >> Her family? You spoke to her family? >> Her family? You spoke to her family? >> Yeah, I spoke to her to to her to her >> Yeah, I spoke to her to to her to her >> Yeah, I spoke to her to to her to her family. family. family. >> Killed by ICE in Minnesota. >> Killed by ICE in Minnesota. >> Killed by ICE in Minnesota. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And we wrote a song about it a week And we wrote a song about it a week And we wrote a song about it a week later. Bruce um later. Bruce um later. Bruce um the same week before us. the same week before us. the same week before us. And And And and in it we said and in it we said and in it we said we had this line, "America will rise we had this line, "America will rise we had this line, "America will rise uh up against the people of the lie." uh up against the people of the lie." uh up against the people of the lie." America will rise against the people of America will rise against the people of America will rise against the people of the lie. the lie. the lie. And Edge had given me this book And Edge had given me this book And Edge had given me this book 30 years ago by M. Scott Peck called The 30 years ago by M. Scott Peck called The 30 years ago by M. Scott Peck called The People of the Lie. People of the Lie. People of the Lie. And And And and it's about it's the nature of evil, and it's about it's the nature of evil, and it's about it's the nature of evil, a study of of malignant narcissism. a study of of malignant narcissism. a study of of malignant narcissism. Anyway, Anyway, Anyway, I was explaining to the family I was explaining to the family I was explaining to the family they before we used the lyric about they before we used the lyric about they before we used the lyric about their their their their daughter who'd been murdered by their daughter who'd been murdered by their daughter who'd been murdered by ICE agents. ICE agents. ICE agents. You know, it was before asking them for You know, it was before asking them for You know, it was before asking them for permission. permission. permission. They're on Zoom and They're on Zoom and They're on Zoom and the father says the father says the father says when I get to the bit about America will when I get to the bit about America will when I get to the bit about America will rise against the people of the lie.

rise against the people of the lie. rise against the people of the lie. He said, "I have the book People of the He said, "I have the book People of the He said, "I have the book People of the Lie. Lie. Lie. Uh here." I said I said book that Edge gave me 30 years ago. He book that Edge gave me 30 years ago. He book that Edge gave me 30 years ago. He says, "Yeah, it's it's it's right here. says, "Yeah, it's it's it's right here. says, "Yeah, it's it's it's right here. Just a month ago Just a month ago Just a month ago I took it out to explain some of what's I took it out to explain some of what's I took it out to explain some of what's going on to my son." going on to my son." going on to my son." So, with those songs So, with those songs So, with those songs in Days of Ash, we did go to names in Days of Ash, we did go to names in Days of Ash, we did go to names uh in Iran in Iran, but for uh in Iran in Iran, but for uh in Iran in Iran, but for for the for the Carnival de Luz, for the for the Carnival de Luz, for the for the Carnival de Luz, we didn't want to go down them. We we didn't want to go down them. We we didn't want to go down them. We didn't want to There's a There's a line didn't want to There's a There's a line didn't want to There's a There's a line in in in Midnight Sunshine in in in Midnight Sunshine in in in Midnight Sunshine um which goes, "Catastrophizing is the um which goes, "Catastrophizing is the um which goes, "Catastrophizing is the glamorizing of the world's pain. If you glamorizing of the world's pain. If you glamorizing of the world's pain. If you don't want to make a devil bigger, stop don't want to make a devil bigger, stop don't want to make a devil bigger, stop repeating repeating repeating his name." his name." his name." So, So, So, we we you know, we just didn't want to we we you know, we just didn't want to we we you know, we just didn't want to talk about certain stuff. And you know, talk about certain stuff. And you know, talk about certain stuff. And you know, can I go on here for just a second? can I go on here for just a second? can I go on here for just a second? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh >> You've never stopped before.

>> You've never stopped before. >> You've never stopped before. >> I know. [laughter] I'm so sorry about >> I know. [laughter] I'm so sorry about >> I know. [laughter] I'm so sorry about that, but that, but that, but you know, if if you can if you can you know, if if you can if you can you know, if if you can if you can separate separate separate a discussion about this administration a discussion about this administration a discussion about this administration from a dis from a a discussion about the from a dis from a a discussion about the from a dis from a a discussion about the left and the right left and the right left and the right and conservatives and liberals, then I'm and conservatives and liberals, then I'm and conservatives and liberals, then I'm fine to go ahead with it because fine to go ahead with it because fine to go ahead with it because I I I think this is I I I think this is I I I think this is This is the most most extraordinary This is the most most extraordinary This is the most most extraordinary moment. I mean, I think this is the moment. I mean, I think this is the moment. I mean, I think this is the greatest heist greatest heist greatest heist in the history of the world. in the history of the world. in the history of the world. Stealing America. Stealing America. Stealing America. And it's it's it's not a caper And it's it's it's not a caper And it's it's it's not a caper movie. It's real and it's happening. And movie. It's real and it's happening. And movie. It's real and it's happening. And and I can and I can and I can you know, I'm not I I just don't want to you know, I'm not I I just don't want to you know, I'm not I I just don't want to want to want to put off want to want to put off want to want to put off good people who vote con- conservative, good people who vote con- conservative, good people who vote con- conservative, who who vote Republican. I'm uh who who vote Republican. I'm uh who who vote Republican. I'm uh You know, their their party's been You know, their their party's been You know, their their party's been hijacked. It's an aggressive takeover of hijacked. It's an aggressive takeover of hijacked. It's an aggressive takeover of the GOP. I want to invite them back.

the GOP. I want to invite them back. the GOP. I want to invite them back. I want them to return. I want to make I want them to return. I want to make I want them to return. I want to make that they you know, cuz people vote that they you know, cuz people vote that they you know, cuz people vote conservative for all kinds of reasons conservative for all kinds of reasons conservative for all kinds of reasons that are okay. that are okay. that are okay. So, we can talk about it without getting So, we can talk about it without getting So, we can talk about it without getting to the usual log as we can say, "But to the usual log as we can say, "But to the usual log as we can say, "But this is a serious problem and I have this is a serious problem and I have this is a serious problem and I have serious personal serious personal serious personal um um um dealings with this because 25 years dealings with this because 25 years dealings with this because 25 years of work in development. of work in development. of work in development. >> If you're talking about evil in the >> If you're talking about evil in the >> If you're talking about evil in the world, right? That's let's put that in world, right? That's let's put that in world, right? That's let's put that in the context of what you were just about the context of what you were just about the context of what you were just about to bring up with your you know that the to bring up with your you know that the to bring up with your you know that the aid work that you and your organization aid work that you and your organization aid work that you and your organization has done over the years with have has done over the years with have has done over the years with have >> You get us just a whole movement of >> You get us just a whole movement of >> You get us just a whole movement of across the world. across the world. across the world. >> this work has has been >> this work has has been >> this work has has been decimated by decimated by decimated by the work of Doche and and you know by the work of Doche and and you know by the work of Doche and and you know by proxy Elon Musk, by the Trump proxy Elon Musk, by the Trump proxy Elon Musk, by the Trump administration. administration. administration. Do you see evil in that? Do you see evil in that? Do you see evil in that? >> Well, general clues general clues on >> Well, general clues general clues on >> Well, general clues general clues on evil look the abuse of children, I would evil look the abuse of children, I would evil look the abuse of children, I would say. And that's always a clue.

say. And that's always a clue. say. And that's always a clue. Um wherever you see that. I I don't know Um wherever you see that. I I don't know Um wherever you see that. I I don't know how many how many how many fatalities will eventually be attributed fatalities will eventually be attributed fatalities will eventually be attributed to the Doche cuts. There are many to the Doche cuts. There are many to the Doche cuts. There are many different estimates. There's modeling. different estimates. There's modeling. different estimates. There's modeling. If you go to say the Lancet British If you go to say the Lancet British If you go to say the Lancet British medical journal most respected medical medical journal most respected medical medical journal most respected medical journal one of the most journal one of the most journal one of the most there there there they they suggest they they suggest they they suggest I think up to to 2030 maybe 5 million I think up to to 2030 maybe 5 million I think up to to 2030 maybe 5 million children under five. children under five. children under five. And let's say they're And let's say they're And let's say they're half wrong. half wrong. half wrong. Let's say it's Let's say it's Let's say it's Let's let's say it's Let's say they're Let's let's say it's Let's say they're Let's let's say it's Let's say they're 20% Let's say it's only 20% of that. 20% Let's say it's only 20% of that. 20% Let's say it's only 20% of that. What What What Christian households, what Catholic Christian households, what Catholic Christian households, what Catholic households, what households, what households, what Jewish religious, what is anyone anyone Jewish religious, what is anyone anyone Jewish religious, what is anyone anyone of a faith, in fact, anyone of of a faith, in fact, anyone of of a faith, in fact, anyone of conscience conscience conscience would allow would allow would allow the the the the hemorrhaging the hemorrhaging the hemorrhaging of human life of human life of human life that is going to happen as result of that is going to happen as result of that is going to happen as result of these budget cuts.

these budget cuts. these budget cuts. I mean it's just it it it is un- un- I mean it's just it it it is un- un- I mean it's just it it it is un- un- unconscionable. unconscionable. unconscionable. >> Well, here's the test of faith question >> Well, here's the test of faith question >> Well, here's the test of faith question and then I'll move on. I was listening and then I'll move on. I was listening and then I'll move on. I was listening [clears throat] just this morning again [clears throat] just this morning again [clears throat] just this morning again to this to glorify from the new album. to this to glorify from the new album. to this to glorify from the new album. There's there's a a line in this in the There's there's a a line in this in the There's there's a a line in this in the song, uh you spit in my eye song, uh you spit in my eye song, uh you spit in my eye you're a bald-faced bare-faced lie and you're a bald-faced bare-faced lie and you're a bald-faced bare-faced lie and there's nothing you can do there's nothing you can do there's nothing you can do to keep me from loving you. You know, to keep me from loving you. You know, to keep me from loving you. You know, it's the idea of having love for the it's the idea of having love for the it's the idea of having love for the ones who are your enemies or your ones who are your enemies or your ones who are your enemies or your opposites. Do do you opposites. Do do you opposites. Do do you do you have love for the people who are do you have love for the people who are do you have love for the people who are doing doing doing the things that you're calling the things that you're calling the things that you're calling unconscionable? unconscionable? unconscionable? >> Yeah, it I I I I I love um >> Yeah, it I I I I I love um >> Yeah, it I I I I I love um [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] these people because I believe these people because I believe these people because I believe God loves them and Christianity calls us God loves them and Christianity calls us God loves them and Christianity calls us not only to not only to not only to to love our neighbor but to love our enemies. But what's but to love our enemies. But what's going on with the the man who's who's going on with the the man who's who's going on with the the man who's who's [clears throat] whose name shall not be [clears throat] whose name shall not be [clears throat] whose name shall not be mentioned mentioned mentioned is something way bigger than the man.

is something way bigger than the man. is something way bigger than the man. It's going on all over the world. It's a It's going on all over the world. It's a It's going on all over the world. It's a crisis in the left. And it's not, by the crisis in the left. And it's not, by the crisis in the left. And it's not, by the way, the heist, this greatest heist in way, the heist, this greatest heist in way, the heist, this greatest heist in the history of the world. the history of the world. the history of the world. It's it It's it It's it it's the crown jewels. It's freedom. it's the crown jewels. It's freedom. it's the crown jewels. It's freedom. It's democracy. It's like It's democracy. It's like It's democracy. It's like the [ __ ] enlightenment. the [ __ ] enlightenment. the [ __ ] enlightenment. You know, it's science. You know, it's science. You know, it's science. You know? You know? You know? Anyway, the point is I'm I'm actually Anyway, the point is I'm I'm actually Anyway, the point is I'm I'm actually just sitting there looking at pa- just sitting there looking at pa- just sitting there looking at pa- >> So, you [clears throat] have obviously >> So, you [clears throat] have obviously >> So, you [clears throat] have obviously had the experience many times of being had the experience many times of being had the experience many times of being in situations like this and in situations like this and in situations like this and having Bono field questions like the having Bono field questions like the having Bono field questions like the kind that I'm asking. What is it like kind that I'm asking. What is it like kind that I'm asking. What is it like for for you to be in that situation? for for you to be in that situation? for for you to be in that situation? Like, are you sitting there thinking, "I Like, are you sitting there thinking, "I Like, are you sitting there thinking, "I You know, I'd really rather he ask about You know, I'd really rather he ask about You know, I'd really rather he ask about the guitar tones on a the guitar tones on a the guitar tones on a >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> No, I mean, look, >> No, I mean, look, >> No, I mean, look, we You mind um getting deep and serious, we You mind um getting deep and serious, we You mind um getting deep and serious, but um you know, you want to keep keep but um you know, you want to keep keep but um you know, you want to keep keep some balance as well. I mean, that is some balance as well. I mean, that is some balance as well. I mean, that is why you two pivoted so heavily after why you two pivoted so heavily after why you two pivoted so heavily after the Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum to the Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum to the Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum to Achtung Baby.

Achtung Baby. Achtung Baby. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is because we realized we were being >> Is because we realized we were being >> Is because we realized we were being robbed robbed robbed of of of aspects of who we were. You know, it aspects of who we were. You know, it aspects of who we were. You know, it just wasn't reflected in in the work and just wasn't reflected in in the work and just wasn't reflected in in the work and therefore people's understanding and therefore people's understanding and therefore people's understanding and perception of us. So, the thing to perception of us. So, the thing to perception of us. So, the thing to remember about us is yes, we can we can remember about us is yes, we can we can remember about us is yes, we can we can get go there. We can get very heavy and get go there. We can get very heavy and get go there. We can get very heavy and very deep, but very deep, but very deep, but actually, we have a lot of fun and what actually, we have a lot of fun and what actually, we have a lot of fun and what when we're together working, we laugh a when we're together working, we laugh a when we're together working, we laugh a lot. And we laugh a lot lot. And we laugh a lot lot. And we laugh a lot at each other and ourselves and we we've at each other and ourselves and we we've at each other and ourselves and we we've we fail a lot and we're happy with the we fail a lot and we're happy with the we fail a lot and we're happy with the fact that we're comfortable with fact that we're comfortable with fact that we're comfortable with failing. failing. failing. Because to us it's like it's a Because to us it's like it's a Because to us it's like it's a you don't you don't get to somewhere you don't you don't get to somewhere you don't you don't get to somewhere greater unless you're prepared to fail. greater unless you're prepared to fail. greater unless you're prepared to fail. Um so, yeah, look, I I share a lot of Um so, yeah, look, I I share a lot of Um so, yeah, look, I I share a lot of Bono's Bono's Bono's um views on these things um um views on these things um um views on these things um and you know, we we we feel a little bit and you know, we we we feel a little bit and you know, we we we feel a little bit of a responsibility, I suppose, to to of a responsibility, I suppose, to to of a responsibility, I suppose, to to address what what we see going wrong address what what we see going wrong address what what we see going wrong with the world.

with the world. with the world. But you can't do it incessantly. So, on But you can't do it incessantly. So, on But you can't do it incessantly. So, on our album, we touch on it lightly our album, we touch on it lightly our album, we touch on it lightly and then, you know, as you say, we're and then, you know, as you say, we're and then, you know, as you say, we're not mentioning names cuz we don't want not mentioning names cuz we don't want not mentioning names cuz we don't want to get into finger wagging. What we want to get into finger wagging. What we want to get into finger wagging. What we want to do is actually draw attention to to do is actually draw attention to to do is actually draw attention to something something something that's a kind of antidote, something that's a kind of antidote, something that's a kind of antidote, something that's better. And I think that's the that's better. And I think that's the that's better. And I think that's the way people operate. way people operate. way people operate. You tell somebody they shouldn't do You tell somebody they shouldn't do You tell somebody they shouldn't do something, something, something, it it's going to be a struggle. it it's going to be a struggle. it it's going to be a struggle. >> You should have said that to him about >> You should have said that to him about >> You should have said that to him about 35 years ago. 35 years ago. 35 years ago. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Are you laughing at us or we both? >> Are you laughing at us or we both? >> Are you laughing at us or we both? >> But >> But >> But so so so so so so >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> so >> so >> so >> when when you're in the studio with with >> when when you're in the studio with with >> when when you're in the studio with with Adam and Larry and you guys have known Adam and Larry and you guys have known Adam and Larry and you guys have known each other 50 years. You've been each other 50 years. You've been each other 50 years. You've been creative partners, business partners, creative partners, business partners, creative partners, business partners, you know, in each other's lives for for you know, in each other's lives for for you know, in each other's lives for for decades. There's got to be things that decades. There's got to be things that decades. There's got to be things that the rhythm section just looks at the the rhythm section just looks at the the rhythm section just looks at the front line guys and goes that that front line guys and goes that that front line guys and goes that that they they do the stuff that drives me they they do the stuff that drives me they they do the stuff that drives me nuts. nuts. nuts. What are the things that you do that What are the things that you do that What are the things that you do that drive Adam and Larry nuts? Both of you. drive Adam and Larry nuts? Both of you. drive Adam and Larry nuts? Both of you. >> Hm.

>> Hm. >> Hm. Well, Well, Well, you know, bands are weird things. Let's you know, bands are weird things. Let's you know, bands are weird things. Let's be honest. be honest. be honest. >> weird. >> weird. >> weird. >> Um >> Um >> Um they're kind of like we are brothers in they're kind of like we are brothers in they're kind of like we are brothers in arms, for sure. arms, for sure. arms, for sure. Um Um Um but but but we don't agree on anything on everything we don't agree on anything on everything we don't agree on anything on everything by any means. And and there's no um by any means. And and there's no um by any means. And and there's no um we we end up making decisions by we we end up making decisions by we we end up making decisions by consensus because consensus because consensus because we've learned over the years that if if we've learned over the years that if if we've learned over the years that if if we're arguing about something, there's a we're arguing about something, there's a we're arguing about something, there's a problem. When everybody just goes, problem. When everybody just goes, problem. When everybody just goes, "That's it." "That's it." "That's it." Um Um Um we know we're onto it. So, we know we're onto it. So, we know we're onto it. So, we do argue, but generally speaking, we do argue, but generally speaking, we do argue, but generally speaking, it's when something's not quite right. it's when something's not quite right. it's when something's not quite right. And then it's just a difference of And then it's just a difference of And then it's just a difference of opinion, like what road we take. opinion, like what road we take. opinion, like what road we take. Um so, Um so, Um so, I would say yeah, I I'm sure I'm I'm I would say yeah, I I'm sure I'm I'm I would say yeah, I I'm sure I'm I'm very annoying at times, but very annoying at times, but very annoying at times, but maybe you should maybe you should maybe you should >> I don't think Edge is. >> I don't think Edge is. >> I don't think Edge is. Um Um Um and that's and that's and that's annoying, by the way.

annoying, by the way. annoying, by the way. No, because he's a person of of of great No, because he's a person of of of great No, because he's a person of of of great reason. And, you know, clearly this reason. And, you know, clearly this reason. And, you know, clearly this extraordinary extraordinary extraordinary influential guitar player who, influential guitar player who, influential guitar player who, you know, is the only person in the you know, is the only person in the you know, is the only person in the world who's not talking about that. I I world who's not talking about that. I I world who's not talking about that. I I would have the annoying gene, I think, would have the annoying gene, I think, would have the annoying gene, I think, probably the most. I'm I'm I'm guilty, probably the most. I'm I'm I'm guilty, probably the most. I'm I'm I'm guilty, your honor. Take me away. I've got it. your honor. Take me away. I've got it. your honor. Take me away. I've got it. Um Um Um but it's it's a it's a thing that about but it's it's a it's a thing that about but it's it's a it's a thing that about performers. You know, the same portal performers. You know, the same portal performers. You know, the same portal that that that you open up you open up you open up to fit a whole stadium inside it, you to fit a whole stadium inside it, you to fit a whole stadium inside it, you know, is know, is know, is not maybe a portal you can close enough not maybe a portal you can close enough not maybe a portal you can close enough in in time in in time in in time to to to protect yourself protect yourself protect yourself from what's from what's from what's in the outside in the outside in the outside world. And you know, you think about world. And you know, you think about world. And you know, you think about stadium-size egos like myself and you stadium-size egos like myself and you stadium-size egos like myself and you think think think about them you you you think about about them you you you think about about them you you you think about self-aggrandizement and then self-aggrandizement and then self-aggrandizement and then and and and much worse.

and and and much worse. and and and much worse. But what happens is the opposite. But what happens is the opposite. But what happens is the opposite. Actually, it's the collapse of the ego. Actually, it's the collapse of the ego. Actually, it's the collapse of the ego. And the singing itself And the singing itself And the singing itself is a vulnerability if you're any good. is a vulnerability if you're any good. is a vulnerability if you're any good. So in order to protect yourself, So in order to protect yourself, So in order to protect yourself, sometimes you put up the fist. So my sometimes you put up the fist. So my sometimes you put up the fist. So my voice is where I'm most vulnerable. voice is where I'm most vulnerable. voice is where I'm most vulnerable. >> Edge, can I ask so so >> Edge, can I ask so so >> Edge, can I ask so so you know, when I when I do like the you know, when I when I do like the you know, when I when I do like the reductive analysis of what drives reductive analysis of what drives reductive analysis of what drives your bandmate here, your bandmate here, your bandmate here, um um um you know, it's it's probably too you know, it's it's probably too you know, it's it's probably too simplistic, but there's probably some simplistic, but there's probably some simplistic, but there's probably some truth in it to say like you know, you truth in it to say like you know, you truth in it to say like you know, you you lost your mother young, your father you lost your mother young, your father you lost your mother young, your father you and he were at loggerheads, and then you and he were at loggerheads, and then you and he were at loggerheads, and then you have you know you have you know you have you know you found the attention of the rest of you found the attention of the rest of you found the attention of the rest of the world that you did not have from the world that you did not have from the world that you did not have from your parents. Um your parents. Um your parents. Um >> Thank you, doc. >> Thank you, doc. >> Thank you, doc. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I think I'll lie down. >> I think I'll lie down. >> I think I'll lie down. Just from my head. I just from my head. Just from my head. I just from my head. Just from my head. I just from my head. I need to leave. I need to leave. I need to leave. >> No, you know, it's a 50-minute hour. >> No, you know, it's a 50-minute hour. >> No, you know, it's a 50-minute hour. Let's keep it Let's keep it Let's keep it >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> but um is it >> but um is it >> but um is it if you're willing to get if you're willing to get if you're willing to get similarly psychologically simplistic similarly psychologically simplistic similarly psychologically simplistic with me, with me, with me, I mean, you I mean, you I mean, you you don't fall into what you've become you don't fall into what you've become you don't fall into what you've become by accident.

by accident. by accident. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> What What are the things that you think >> What What are the things that you think >> What What are the things that you think in your deepest core in your deepest core in your deepest core drive you to Yeah, have driven you to drive you to Yeah, have driven you to drive you to Yeah, have driven you to achieve what you've achieved. achieve what you've achieved. achieve what you've achieved. Where does it come from? Where does it come from? Where does it come from? >> I think if if Bono's >> I think if if Bono's >> I think if if Bono's drug of choice drug of choice drug of choice might be recognition. might be recognition. might be recognition. I think my drug of choice is probably uh I think my drug of choice is probably uh I think my drug of choice is probably uh engagement and inclusion. engagement and inclusion. engagement and inclusion. So So So So I always So I always So I always loved being part of this, you know, and loved being part of this, you know, and loved being part of this, you know, and so that in a in a way was was enough in so that in a in a way was was enough in so that in a in a way was was enough in some ways. And also the other thing I some ways. And also the other thing I some ways. And also the other thing I absolutely have to an annoying degree is absolutely have to an annoying degree is absolutely have to an annoying degree is a kind of problem-solver gene. So I'm a kind of problem-solver gene. So I'm a kind of problem-solver gene. So I'm I want to do stuff myself. I'm not a I want to do stuff myself. I'm not a I want to do stuff myself. I'm not a good delegator. I'm not somebody who good delegator. I'm not somebody who good delegator. I'm not somebody who naturally looks for naturally looks for naturally looks for others to others to others to weigh in. weigh in. weigh in. And that's to my detriment. You want to And that's to my detriment. You want to And that's to my detriment. You want to get under the get under the get under the >> the hood yourself. Yeah. I want to do >> the hood yourself. Yeah. I want to do >> the hood yourself. Yeah. I want to do it. it. it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I see I see songwriting in some ways >> And I see I see songwriting in some ways >> And I see I see songwriting in some ways as as as you know, you you've got the clue. Now you know, you you've got the clue. Now you know, you you've got the clue. Now what's the next clue? And it's iterative what's the next clue? And it's iterative what's the next clue? And it's iterative in that sense. For for us, I think more in that sense. For for us, I think more in that sense. For for us, I think more than most songwriters, than most songwriters, than most songwriters, um um um we will start with a version of a song.

we will start with a version of a song. we will start with a version of a song. We'll tear it apart. We'll rebuild it. We'll tear it apart. We'll rebuild it. We'll tear it apart. We'll rebuild it. Most of the time it's it's it's Most of the time it's it's it's Most of the time it's it's it's iterative. It's it's a it's a tough iterative. It's it's a it's a tough iterative. It's it's a it's a tough process, but I kind of love love it and process, but I kind of love love it and process, but I kind of love love it and and being part of the band, that that's and being part of the band, that that's and being part of the band, that that's those two things really are things I those two things really are things I those two things really are things I I'm not sure, you know, I could imagine I'm not sure, you know, I could imagine I'm not sure, you know, I could imagine a more rewarding place to be personally a more rewarding place to be personally a more rewarding place to be personally than as as member of this band. than as as member of this band. than as as member of this band. >> Bono, you have to stay inside man mode >> Bono, you have to stay inside man mode >> Bono, you have to stay inside man mode for a second cuz I have another for a second cuz I have another for a second cuz I have another >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> but um >> but um >> but um just in terms of your guitar playing, I just in terms of your guitar playing, I just in terms of your guitar playing, I I really I really I really think of think of think of you as someone who for you as someone who for you as someone who for a long time a long time a long time This is as as a fan and as a guitar This is as as a fan and as a guitar This is as as a fan and as a guitar player, like part of the fun of hearing player, like part of the fun of hearing player, like part of the fun of hearing you play was hearing you come up with you play was hearing you come up with you play was hearing you come up with ways to make the guitar sound not like a ways to make the guitar sound not like a ways to make the guitar sound not like a guitar or sound like um guitar or sound like um guitar or sound like um make the guitar sound in new ways than make the guitar sound in new ways than make the guitar sound in new ways than we'd heard it before. And I think my we'd heard it before. And I think my we'd heard it before. And I think my sense is that you were very consciously sense is that you were very consciously sense is that you were very consciously wanting to resist the clichés of of rock wanting to resist the clichés of of rock wanting to resist the clichés of of rock and roll music and rock and roll guitar and roll music and rock and roll guitar and roll music and rock and roll guitar playing.

playing. playing. But But But now at at a moment where now at at a moment where now at at a moment where you know, I wouldn't say the guitar and you know, I wouldn't say the guitar and you know, I wouldn't say the guitar and rock and roll clichés are rock and roll clichés are rock and roll clichés are you know, at the forefront of any music you know, at the forefront of any music you know, at the forefront of any music listener's attention in any serious way, listener's attention in any serious way, listener's attention in any serious way, do do you still think about your guitar do do you still think about your guitar do do you still think about your guitar playing as as sort of being in playing as as sort of being in playing as as sort of being in opposition opposition opposition to expected sounds? to expected sounds? to expected sounds? >> You're absolutely right that I've always >> You're absolutely right that I've always >> You're absolutely right that I've always made it a point to try and find a way to made it a point to try and find a way to made it a point to try and find a way to make the guitar sound different and to make the guitar sound different and to make the guitar sound different and to to play the guitar in a different way. to play the guitar in a different way. to play the guitar in a different way. Um I think that was born of the fact Um I think that was born of the fact Um I think that was born of the fact that we emerged as a band in that moment that we emerged as a band in that moment that we emerged as a band in that moment after punk rock. Punk rock kind of after punk rock. Punk rock kind of after punk rock. Punk rock kind of pulled everything down pulled everything down pulled everything down um and started from um and started from um and started from ground zero again. So we were like we ground zero again. So we were like we ground zero again. So we were like we took advantage of that took advantage of that took advantage of that opportunity to to start something new. opportunity to to start something new. opportunity to to start something new. If you want If you want If you want if you if you if you the cycle is order the cycle is order the cycle is order disorder reorder and we we arrived just disorder reorder and we we arrived just disorder reorder and we we arrived just at the beginning of that reorder phase.

at the beginning of that reorder phase. at the beginning of that reorder phase. Um Um Um but that demanded that you you did but that demanded that you you did but that demanded that you you did abandon the past. We were looking for abandon the past. We were looking for abandon the past. We were looking for what's next in this in the story of what's next in this in the story of what's next in this in the story of contemporary music. Where where does contemporary music. Where where does contemporary music. Where where does this story go now? this story go now? this story go now? So from a guitarist's point of view, I So from a guitarist's point of view, I So from a guitarist's point of view, I was always trying to do something fresh was always trying to do something fresh was always trying to do something fresh and still still do. and still still do. and still still do. Um Um Um I think that um I think that um I think that um we're almost back in that moment again. we're almost back in that moment again. we're almost back in that moment again. I don't mean necessarily just in music I don't mean necessarily just in music I don't mean necessarily just in music culture, but in terms of culture, but in terms of culture, but in terms of global geopolitics, global geopolitics, global geopolitics, um um um all of the things that were affecting all of the things that were affecting all of the things that were affecting culture in the culture in the culture in the mid to late '70s, post-Vietnam, mid to late '70s, post-Vietnam, mid to late '70s, post-Vietnam, it's like that we're there again. So, I it's like that we're there again. So, I it's like that we're there again. So, I think music think music think music has to do a similar thing of a has to do a similar thing of a has to do a similar thing of a reinvention, and I think that's reinvention, and I think that's reinvention, and I think that's that's an exciting moment, I think, for that's an exciting moment, I think, for that's an exciting moment, I think, for music to music to music to to find somewhere a new narrative to to to find somewhere a new narrative to to to find somewhere a new narrative to to to follow. to follow. to follow. >> Are are there artists now who you think >> Are are there artists now who you think >> Are are there artists now who you think are are are pushing that reinvention forward?

pushing that reinvention forward? pushing that reinvention forward? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think there are. I mean, Geese, for I think there are. I mean, Geese, for I think there are. I mean, Geese, for instance, I I think that's a very instance, I I think that's a very instance, I I think that's a very compelling new thing. Um Fontaines D.C., compelling new thing. Um Fontaines D.C., compelling new thing. Um Fontaines D.C., another great group that are really another great group that are really another great group that are really taking things in a different direction. taking things in a different direction. taking things in a different direction. Um Um Um and there's more, you know, um and there's more, you know, um and there's more, you know, um when you when it starts to feel too when you when it starts to feel too when you when it starts to feel too comfortable and too predictable, comfortable and too predictable, comfortable and too predictable, I I start to I I start to I I start to to twitch. I'm looking for a a shocking to twitch. I'm looking for a a shocking to twitch. I'm looking for a a shocking new thing, new thing, new thing, always. always. always. >> I I saw uh >> I I saw uh >> I I saw uh you [snorts] know, I was reading the you [snorts] know, I was reading the you [snorts] know, I was reading the trades, as I do. trades, as I do. trades, as I do. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> And I saw a an item not that long or >> And I saw a an item not that long or >> And I saw a an item not that long or probably, I don't know, earlier this probably, I don't know, earlier this probably, I don't know, earlier this year, something like that, where you year, something like that, where you year, something like that, where you guys had hired a woman named Sulina Ong guys had hired a woman named Sulina Ong guys had hired a woman named Sulina Ong as part of your as part of your as part of your >> Sulina. >> Sulina. >> Sulina. >> Sulina Ong as part of your management >> Sulina Ong as part of your management >> Sulina Ong as part of your management team. She had previously been at at team. She had previously been at at team. She had previously been at at Spotify doing, I think, global curation Spotify doing, I think, global curation Spotify doing, I think, global curation and and uh and and uh and and uh I think I think I think uh Jeff Azoff is one of your managers uh Jeff Azoff is one of your managers uh Jeff Azoff is one of your managers now. He manages Harry Styles. When when now. He manages Harry Styles. When when now. He manages Harry Styles. When when you two you two you two start working with new managers, start working with new managers, start working with new managers, presumably those people presumably those people presumably those people pitch something to you or say to you pitch something to you or say to you pitch something to you or say to you make an argument to you guys, make an argument to you guys, make an argument to you guys, presumably, for, you know, how what presumably, for, you know, how what presumably, for, you know, how what their value to you is, what their worth their value to you is, what their worth their value to you is, what their worth is. So, what what did they tell you that is. So, what what did they tell you that is. So, what what did they tell you that you didn't know about how you two can you didn't know about how you two can you didn't know about how you two can find new listeners or move forward find new listeners or move forward find new listeners or move forward at at this point in the band's career at at this point in the band's career at at this point in the band's career and and in this particular musical world and and in this particular musical world and and in this particular musical world we live in.

we live in. we live in. >> We've just had this just in the last >> We've just had this just in the last >> We've just had this just in the last couple of weeks. We've been sitting couple of weeks. We've been sitting couple of weeks. We've been sitting around listening to people tell us to do around listening to people tell us to do around listening to people tell us to do things things things uh suggest that we do things uh suggest that we do things uh suggest that we do things that we hadn't thought of. that we hadn't thought of. that we hadn't thought of. >> Like what? What are they telling you? >> Like what? What are they telling you? >> Like what? What are they telling you? >> one of >> one of >> one of the things that was explained to us and the things that was explained to us and the things that was explained to us and Selena was great at this. Selena was great at this. Selena was great at this. She said She said She said it it is it it is it it is almost impossible the way people live almost impossible the way people live almost impossible the way people live now and listen now in their separate now and listen now in their separate now and listen now in their separate communities communities communities to to to do something that everyone will to to to do something that everyone will to to to do something that everyone will be aware of. The be aware of. The be aware of. The The amount of advertising you would have The amount of advertising you would have The amount of advertising you would have to spend, the amount of concerts you to spend, the amount of concerts you to spend, the amount of concerts you would have to play and in in every would have to play and in in every would have to play and in in every college town or you know around the college town or you know around the college town or you know around the world you just they people still might world you just they people still might world you just they people still might not know not know not know that you've put out a new album. that you've put out a new album. that you've put out a new album. So you should turn up in unexpected So you should turn up in unexpected So you should turn up in unexpected places places places and and and and and and and they were suggesting some of them and they were suggesting some of them and they were suggesting some of them and some of them were and some of them were and some of them were um just not things that we would have um just not things that we would have um just not things that we would have considered and considered and considered and um um um and I just uh we were we were laughing and I just uh we were we were laughing and I just uh we were we were laughing the four of us and going what you know what you know are we still going to have to break into are we still going to have to break into are we still going to have to break into the charts? It's nothing's changed since the charts? It's nothing's changed since the charts? It's nothing's changed since we were kids.

we were kids. we were kids. And it's hard and we were sitting around And it's hard and we were sitting around And it's hard and we were sitting around uh with Larry who doesn't like normally uh with Larry who doesn't like normally uh with Larry who doesn't like normally to do this kind of thing to do this kind of thing to do this kind of thing and uh it was saying you know and uh it was saying you know and uh it was saying you know are we ready to go out and meet people are we ready to go out and meet people are we ready to go out and meet people that you know that you know that you know may not know who we are. I I'm used to may not know who we are. I I'm used to may not know who we are. I I'm used to it as an activist but are we as a band? it as an activist but are we as a band? it as an activist but are we as a band? And I was surprised And I was surprised And I was surprised that all four of us were like, "Okay, that all four of us were like, "Okay, that all four of us were like, "Okay, let's give me another suggestion. Give let's give me another suggestion. Give let's give me another suggestion. Give me another suggestion." Including me another suggestion." Including me another suggestion." Including um um um uh including Larry who like, "Yeah, I'm uh including Larry who like, "Yeah, I'm uh including Larry who like, "Yeah, I'm I'm I'm listening. I'm suspicious, but I'm I'm listening. I'm suspicious, but I'm I'm listening. I'm suspicious, but I'm listening." And I'm listening." And I'm listening." And and I and I and I I thought that was good. That we still I thought that was good. That we still I thought that was good. That we still for us it's still for us it's still for us it's still a you know, something we have to prove. a you know, something we have to prove. a you know, something we have to prove. >> But maybe maybe it's it's a feels gauche >> But maybe maybe it's it's a feels gauche >> But maybe maybe it's it's a feels gauche to get into the specifics or something. to get into the specifics or something. to get into the specifics or something. But like are they suggesting licensing a But like are they suggesting licensing a But like are they suggesting licensing a song in a show you hadn't thought of? song in a show you hadn't thought of? song in a show you hadn't thought of? Are they suggesting, you know, you play Are they suggesting, you know, you play Are they suggesting, you know, you play a a a >> pop-up at Raising Cane's, the viral >> pop-up at Raising Cane's, the viral >> pop-up at Raising Cane's, the viral chicken restaurant? chicken restaurant? chicken restaurant? >> Like what what are they saying? >> Like what what are they saying? >> Like what what are they saying? >> No, no. >> No, no. >> No, no. >> That's a great idea. >> That's a great idea. >> That's a great idea. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> How long have you Just going to write >> How long have you Just going to write >> How long have you Just going to write that one down.

that one down. that one down. >> How long have you been with with The >> How long have you been with with The >> How long have you been with with The Smothers? Smothers? Smothers? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> You >> You >> You You're going to get on very well at the You're going to get on very well at the You're going to get on very well at the corporation. corporation. corporation. You had some very good ideas You had some very good ideas You had some very good ideas during the interview. during the interview. during the interview. >> Interview. >> Interview. >> Interview. >> Um the there was some of that, but in >> Um the there was some of that, but in >> Um the there was some of that, but in places that we hadn't expected. places that we hadn't expected. places that we hadn't expected. >> I think this also this album on on where >> I think this also this album on on where >> I think this also this album on on where we're going to take the tour lends we're going to take the tour lends we're going to take the tour lends itself to uh itself to uh itself to uh some almost Dada-like uh opportunities some almost Dada-like uh opportunities some almost Dada-like uh opportunities to play around with the absurd. Like to play around with the absurd. Like to play around with the absurd. Like why, you know, you two do some crazy why, you know, you two do some crazy why, you know, you two do some crazy stuff no one is expecting. And I think stuff no one is expecting. And I think stuff no one is expecting. And I think that's fun. I'm I'm looking forward to that's fun. I'm I'm looking forward to that's fun. I'm I'm looking forward to that. So it's not necessarily playing that. So it's not necessarily playing that. So it's not necessarily playing the game as it is played, but it's like the game as it is played, but it's like the game as it is played, but it's like taking a new angle on taking a new angle on taking a new angle on the opportunities that are there and and the opportunities that are there and and the opportunities that are there and and finding a different way to approach finding a different way to approach finding a different way to approach things because it is hard to surprise things because it is hard to surprise things because it is hard to surprise yourselves as much as your audience yourselves as much as your audience yourselves as much as your audience having done it so many times before. having done it so many times before. having done it so many times before. >> I have always been about what Paul McGuinness about what Paul McGuinness said to you guys after the whole iTunes said to you guys after the whole iTunes said to you guys after the whole iTunes mess where you, you know, put the then mess where you, you know, put the then mess where you, you know, put the then new album on people's it was in their new album on people's it was in their new album on people's it was in their their iTunes without asking for it and their iTunes without asking for it and their iTunes without asking for it and turned into a kind of a debacle that turned into a kind of a debacle that turned into a kind of a debacle that people were pretty mad about. Paul must people were pretty mad about. Paul must people were pretty mad about. Paul must must something to say about that after, must something to say about that after, must something to say about that after, right?

right? right? >> Yeah, he's pretty pretty much the same >> Yeah, he's pretty pretty much the same >> Yeah, he's pretty pretty much the same thing that Tim Cook said [laughter] thing that Tim Cook said [laughter] thing that Tim Cook said [laughter] when we pitched him the idea. I pitched when we pitched him the idea. I pitched when we pitched him the idea. I pitched him the idea, which is him the idea, which is him the idea, which is you spent your whole life getting people you spent your whole life getting people you spent your whole life getting people to pay for music, why would you want to to pay for music, why would you want to to pay for music, why would you want to give something away free? give something away free? give something away free? And I And I And I I mean, we were experimenting. We We We I mean, we were experimenting. We We We I mean, we were experimenting. We We We wanted to wanted to wanted to to to see if we could to to see if we could to to see if we could get Apple or another company to pay for get Apple or another company to pay for get Apple or another company to pay for our music and then they distribute it. our music and then they distribute it. our music and then they distribute it. It's It was just like the way you use a It's It was just like the way you use a It's It was just like the way you use a record label. record label. record label. Um Um Um and look, [clears throat] you know, it and look, [clears throat] you know, it and look, [clears throat] you know, it takes takes takes It's going to take some experimentation It's going to take some experimentation It's going to take some experimentation to fix the music. I mean, it's It's to fix the music. I mean, it's It's to fix the music. I mean, it's It's astonishing astonishing astonishing how [snorts] little how [snorts] little how [snorts] little other musicians are paid. other musicians are paid. other musicians are paid. And And And it's frightening. I see it in my son's it's frightening. I see it in my son's it's frightening. I see it in my son's band and in Haim, and they're band and in Haim, and they're band and in Haim, and they're really successful outfit. And really successful outfit. And really successful outfit. And >> Yeah, I I agree. It's [clears throat] >> Yeah, I I agree. It's [clears throat] >> Yeah, I I agree. It's [clears throat] It's all It's fine for us, It's all It's fine for us, It's all It's fine for us, but for a young artist coming up, um but for a young artist coming up, um but for a young artist coming up, um it's it's very very hard to imagine how it's it's very very hard to imagine how it's it's very very hard to imagine how a band of like like U2 would have been a band of like like U2 would have been a band of like like U2 would have been able to survive.

able to survive. able to survive. >> But yeah, that that was all on me, and >> But yeah, that that was all on me, and >> But yeah, that that was all on me, and and Apple were really good about it, by and Apple were really good about it, by and Apple were really good about it, by the way. They took all the punches. the way. They took all the punches. the way. They took all the punches. >> And Well, for them, it's just a rounding >> And Well, for them, it's just a rounding >> And Well, for them, it's just a rounding error at some point. They don't have to error at some point. They don't have to error at some point. They don't have to worry about it. worry about it. worry about it. >> um >> um >> um um um um error [clears throat] for for them, but error [clears throat] for for them, but error [clears throat] for for them, but >> But do you think it was a reputational >> But do you think it was a reputational >> But do you think it was a reputational error error for you guys? Do you think error error for you guys? Do you think error error for you guys? Do you think >> I went too far on that >> I went too far on that >> I went too far on that >> Did it hurt the band's standing? >> Did it hurt the band's standing? >> Did it hurt the band's standing? >> That's another one where I I went a >> That's another one where I I went a >> That's another one where I I went a little too far. The experiments um little too far. The experiments um little too far. The experiments um >> But we take risks. >> But we take risks. >> But we take risks. >> again. >> again. >> again. >> We do. Um we have to, you know? So, you >> We do. Um we have to, you know? So, you >> We do. Um we have to, you know? So, you [clears throat] fail. You fall on your [clears throat] fail. You fall on your [clears throat] fail. You fall on your face at times. That's part of the gig, face at times. That's part of the gig, face at times. That's part of the gig, you know? If you if you were never going you know? If you if you were never going you know? If you if you were never going to take any major risks, then it to take any major risks, then it to take any major risks, then it wouldn't be what it is, you know? So, we wouldn't be what it is, you know? So, we wouldn't be what it is, you know? So, we just take that as like one of the things just take that as like one of the things just take that as like one of the things that we have to we have to acknowledge. that we have to we have to acknowledge. that we have to we have to acknowledge. We're not always going to get it right. We're not always going to get it right. We're not always going to get it right. >> And you you had uh mentioned a second >> And you you had uh mentioned a second >> And you you had uh mentioned a second ago or just briefly alluded to taking ago or just briefly alluded to taking ago or just briefly alluded to taking the music to to new people and playing the music to to new people and playing the music to to new people and playing live. Do live. Do live. Do So there are plans to go on tour next So there are plans to go on tour next So there are plans to go on tour next year? year? year? >> There are. >> There are. >> There are. >> There And you have a >> There And you have a >> There And you have a Can you share that I mean there the Can you share that I mean there the Can you share that I mean there the tours are always conceptual in some way.

tours are always conceptual in some way. tours are always conceptual in some way. What is the concept for how you bring What is the concept for how you bring What is the concept for how you bring this new music to people? this new music to people? this new music to people? >> Well, the album title's a clue. >> Well, the album title's a clue. >> Well, the album title's a clue. But um But um But um I think I think I think we can't go too much into cuz actually we can't go too much into cuz actually we can't go too much into cuz actually the plans are still forming, but um the plans are still forming, but um the plans are still forming, but um we are interested in as usual this we are interested in as usual this we are interested in as usual this intersection between intersection between intersection between um shamanism and show business. This um shamanism and show business. This um shamanism and show business. This >> I was wondering would he go there. I I >> I was wondering would he go there. I I >> I was wondering would he go there. I I thought I would and then I thought no, thought I would and then I thought no, thought I would and then I thought no, they won't like it if I do it. they won't like it if I do it. they won't like it if I do it. >> You know, so so >> You know, so so >> You know, so so >> there himself. >> there himself. >> there himself. >> It's um it's a fascinating >> It's um it's a fascinating >> It's um it's a fascinating [clears throat] place. [clears throat] place. [clears throat] place. um um um All all of the uh the great showman, you All all of the uh the great showman, you All all of the uh the great showman, you know, know, know, have to to some extent pull off a magic have to to some extent pull off a magic have to to some extent pull off a magic trick and which which gets into trick and which which gets into trick and which which gets into you know, a mysterious place. you know, a mysterious place. you know, a mysterious place. um um um And it works both ways. Here's the And it works both ways. Here's the And it works both ways. Here's the thing. thing. thing. um um um The great politicians of this moment The great politicians of this moment The great politicians of this moment who unfortunately in in a lot of cases, who unfortunately in in a lot of cases, who unfortunately in in a lot of cases, I think are supremely dangerous I think are supremely dangerous I think are supremely dangerous are very shamanistic.

are very shamanistic. are very shamanistic. >> When you say shamanistic, what what do >> When you say shamanistic, what what do >> When you say shamanistic, what what do you mean? you mean? you mean? >> I mean that they are dazzling people. >> I mean that they are dazzling people. >> I mean that they are dazzling people. Dazzling people with a kind of a Dazzling people with a kind of a Dazzling people with a kind of a an act of some sort. an act of some sort. an act of some sort. Uh it's it's it's Uh it's it's it's Uh it's it's it's it's the um it's the um it's the um the snake oil salesman the snake oil salesman the snake oil salesman aspect. aspect. aspect. And um And um And um we're living in a post-truth era because we're living in a post-truth era because we're living in a post-truth era because unfortunately there is so many unfortunately there is so many unfortunately there is so many opportunities to put out narratives opportunities to put out narratives opportunities to put out narratives there that are fake narratives. there that are fake narratives. there that are fake narratives. And I think that is being taken And I think that is being taken And I think that is being taken advantage of and and advantage of and and advantage of and and our buttons can easily be pushed our buttons can easily be pushed our buttons can easily be pushed particularly particularly particularly when fear is the weapon that you're when fear is the weapon that you're when fear is the weapon that you're you're taking advantage of. So you're taking advantage of. So you're taking advantage of. So for us it's like we're both exploring for us it's like we're both exploring for us it's like we're both exploring [clears throat] these things in a good [clears throat] these things in a good [clears throat] these things in a good way and a bad way. way and a bad way. way and a bad way. And it's you know it's Silencio the And it's you know it's Silencio the And it's you know it's Silencio the lyric of Silencio it encapsulates so two lyric of Silencio it encapsulates so two lyric of Silencio it encapsulates so two extremes right there. The two types of extremes right there. The two types of extremes right there. The two types of silence. The one silence. The one silence. The one a contemplative meditative reflective a contemplative meditative reflective a contemplative meditative reflective silence is a beautiful thing when you're silence is a beautiful thing when you're silence is a beautiful thing when you're appreciating appreciating appreciating the the beauty and joy of the world. But the the beauty and joy of the world. But the the beauty and joy of the world. But the other kind of silence is when you're the other kind of silence is when you're the other kind of silence is when you're cowed and you're you're you're afraid to cowed and you're you're you're afraid to cowed and you're you're you're afraid to speak because speak because speak because if you say the wrong thing you will be if you say the wrong thing you will be if you say the wrong thing you will be punished. You you might go to jail.

punished. You you might go to jail. punished. You you might go to jail. You'll be ostracized. You'll be ostracized. You'll be ostracized. And that's super dangerous. And that's super dangerous. And that's super dangerous. >> That is very >> That is very >> That is very >> Thank you for saying that. Can I just >> Thank you for saying that. Can I just >> Thank you for saying that. Can I just say there's a poem poem by Michael say there's a poem poem by Michael say there's a poem poem by Michael Lunig. Lunig. Lunig. There are only two feelings love and There are only two feelings love and There are only two feelings love and fear. There are only two languages love fear. There are only two languages love fear. There are only two languages love and fear. There are only two activities and fear. There are only two activities and fear. There are only two activities love and fear. There are only two love and fear. There are only two love and fear. There are only two motives two procedures two frameworks motives two procedures two frameworks motives two procedures two frameworks two results love and fear love and fear. two results love and fear love and fear. two results love and fear love and fear. We will um We will um We will um be be be at our shows at our shows at our shows and you've been to them and you've been to them and you've been to them there's a lot of love and that's not a there's a lot of love and that's not a there's a lot of love and that's not a up with people type love let's all give up with people type love let's all give up with people type love let's all give each other a hug and all the rest of it. each other a hug and all the rest of it. each other a hug and all the rest of it. It's at a It's at a It's at a I think a I think a I think a a level of depth at a U2 show where a level of depth at a U2 show where a level of depth at a U2 show where people genuinely who don't normally people genuinely who don't normally people genuinely who don't normally agree with each other's politics feel agree with each other's politics feel agree with each other's politics feel safe at our shows. And I am very proud safe at our shows. And I am very proud safe at our shows. And I am very proud of that. And you know you had Mick of that. And you know you had Mick of that. And you know you had Mick Jagger on and The Rolling Stones and Jagger on and The Rolling Stones and Jagger on and The Rolling Stones and just untouchable, extraordinary act. And just untouchable, extraordinary act. And just untouchable, extraordinary act. And he's just one of the great front men he's just one of the great front men he's just one of the great front men whoever was whoever was whoever was and or will be.

and or will be. and or will be. And And And Bob Hilburn is another Bob Hilburn is another Bob Hilburn is another great writer about the music. great writer about the music. great writer about the music. >> yep. >> yep. >> yep. >> And Los Angeles Times, he said something >> And Los Angeles Times, he said something >> And Los Angeles Times, he said something along the lines of along the lines of along the lines of if you you go to a Rolling Stones show, if you you go to a Rolling Stones show, if you you go to a Rolling Stones show, no matter what you've been through no matter what you've been through no matter what you've been through in your life or your day or your month in your life or your day or your month in your life or your day or your month or your week, or your week, or your week, you feel good about yourself and that's you feel good about yourself and that's you feel good about yourself and that's no mean feat. no mean feat. no mean feat. But if you go to go to a YouTube show, But if you go to go to a YouTube show, But if you go to go to a YouTube show, he says, he says, he says, an odd thing happens. You feel really an odd thing happens. You feel really an odd thing happens. You feel really good about the person you're standing good about the person you're standing good about the person you're standing next to. next to. next to. There's something in that. Both are There's something in that. Both are There's something in that. Both are really important. And and really important. And and really important. And and we just that's that's what we want. We we just that's that's what we want. We we just that's that's what we want. We want these shows to want these shows to want these shows to if they're in America, we want the if they're in America, we want the if they're in America, we want the people feel really people feel really people feel really good good good about the choice to to pay a ticket and about the choice to to pay a ticket and about the choice to to pay a ticket and probably pay too much for it to to see probably pay too much for it to to see probably pay too much for it to to see us. us. us. And but we are going to challenge them. And but we are going to challenge them. And but we are going to challenge them. But not on the obvious. But not on the obvious. But not on the obvious. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Presumably you have some say in the Presumably you have some say in the Presumably you have some say in the ticket prices, right? ticket prices, right? ticket prices, right? >> Well, the the whole problem with the >> Well, the the whole problem with the >> Well, the the whole problem with the live businesses very little.

live businesses very little. live businesses very little. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh >> What we do in our band is we have we >> What we do in our band is we have we >> What we do in our band is we have we take the best seats in the house. We've take the best seats in the house. We've take the best seats in the house. We've done this all our life and make sure done this all our life and make sure done this all our life and make sure that they're often the most affordable. that they're often the most affordable. that they're often the most affordable. The ones up front, the ones are within The ones up front, the ones are within The ones up front, the ones are within the the heart or within the circle. the the heart or within the circle. the the heart or within the circle. We've done this. We always find a way to We've done this. We always find a way to We've done this. We always find a way to do this. And do this. And do this. And we we also have no problem um separating we we also have no problem um separating we we also have no problem um separating um people um people um people rich people from their money. You know, rich people from their money. You know, rich people from their money. You know, as we say, um rich people have feelings, as we say, um rich people have feelings, as we say, um rich people have feelings, too, they are. And let us let us if they too, they are. And let us let us if they too, they are. And let us let us if they want to pay very high prices, we've no want to pay very high prices, we've no want to pay very high prices, we've no problem. problem. problem. >> So so uh let me just try and >> So so uh let me just try and >> So so uh let me just try and wrap up with um wrap up with um wrap up with um sort of a whole a holistic question. You sort of a whole a holistic question. You sort of a whole a holistic question. You know, you you know, you you know, you you even just in the course of this even just in the course of this even just in the course of this conversation, it's deeply obvious that, conversation, it's deeply obvious that, conversation, it's deeply obvious that, you know, you U2 thinks about the story you know, you U2 thinks about the story you know, you U2 thinks about the story that we're all living in. You know, what that we're all living in. You know, what that we're all living in. You know, what is and and what the band can offer to is and and what the band can offer to is and and what the band can offer to that story.

that story. that story. But But But like like like you know, you're you're middle-aged, you know, you're you're middle-aged, you know, you're you're middle-aged, you've been around for 50 years. You you you've been around for 50 years. You you you've been around for 50 years. You you know know know >> Did you say middle-aged? >> Did you say middle-aged? >> Did you say middle-aged? >> Where as middle-aged as a family. >> Where as middle-aged as a family. >> Where as middle-aged as a family. >> You can call us middle-aged, don't don't >> You can call us middle-aged, don't don't >> You can call us middle-aged, don't don't ever call us middle of the road. ever call us middle of the road. ever call us middle of the road. >> But you where is >> But you where is >> But you where is you know, it doesn't go on forever. you know, it doesn't go on forever. you know, it doesn't go on forever. Where where is Where where is Where where is U2 in the story of the band right now? U2 in the story of the band right now? U2 in the story of the band right now? And do you have some sense some sense of And do you have some sense some sense of And do you have some sense some sense of how you will want that story to end? how you will want that story to end? how you will want that story to end? >> We're still creatively extremely >> We're still creatively extremely >> We're still creatively extremely inspired and active. And there are lots inspired and active. And there are lots inspired and active. And there are lots of songs that have yet to be released. of songs that have yet to be released. of songs that have yet to be released. And yet to be finished, yeah. And yet to be finished, yeah. And yet to be finished, yeah. >> written. >> written. >> written. >> Um so, I can't see um >> Um so, I can't see um >> Um so, I can't see um that ending anytime soon. that ending anytime soon. that ending anytime soon. >> I think they might be interested in your >> I think they might be interested in your >> I think they might be interested in your speech to the band the other day about speech to the band the other day about speech to the band the other day about if you had to find another [snorts] if you had to find another [snorts] if you had to find another [snorts] band. band. band. Um I thought that was funny. Um I thought that was funny. Um I thought that was funny. >> Well, that's that's that's the other >> Well, that's that's that's the other >> Well, that's that's that's the other thing about, you know, why I'm still in thing about, you know, why I'm still in thing about, you know, why I'm still in U2 is, you know, occasionally early on I U2 is, you know, occasionally early on I U2 is, you know, occasionally early on I would, you know, I'd go, "Oh, this is would, you know, I'd go, "Oh, this is would, you know, I'd go, "Oh, this is too difficult, you know, I too difficult, you know, I too difficult, you know, I I [clears throat] should really get out I [clears throat] should really get out I [clears throat] should really get out of this band."

of this band." of this band." And I would I would sort of start the And I would I would sort of start the And I would I would sort of start the inner dialogue, "Well, so what do you inner dialogue, "Well, so what do you inner dialogue, "Well, so what do you want to do with your life?" And I go, want to do with your life?" And I go, want to do with your life?" And I go, "Well, "Well, "Well, I'm I'm just a creative person and music I'm I'm just a creative person and music I'm I'm just a creative person and music is kind of my my main thing. So, I'd is kind of my my main thing. So, I'd is kind of my my main thing. So, I'd stay in music." stay in music." stay in music." So, okay, you're going to stay in music. So, okay, you're going to stay in music. So, okay, you're going to stay in music. Great. Great. Great. Um Um Um Do you want to sing? And I'm like, Do you want to sing? And I'm like, Do you want to sing? And I'm like, "Ah "Ah "Ah >> Beautiful thing. I really >> Beautiful thing. I really >> Beautiful thing. I really >> to be the singer or I'm really happy >> to be the singer or I'm really happy >> to be the singer or I'm really happy being a guitar player. being a guitar player. being a guitar player. So, So, So, who's who's the singer you most like to who's who's the singer you most like to who's who's the singer you most like to work with? And I'd be like, work with? And I'd be like, work with? And I'd be like, well, clearly Bono. well, clearly Bono. well, clearly Bono. So, okay. I'm I'll be doing a solo So, okay. I'm I'll be doing a solo So, okay. I'm I'll be doing a solo thing, but Bono will be the singer. So, thing, but Bono will be the singer. So, thing, but Bono will be the singer. So, then okay, we need a rhythm section, then okay, we need a rhythm section, then okay, we need a rhythm section, obviously. obviously. obviously. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Um, what's the best rhythm section for >> Um, what's the best rhythm section for >> Um, what's the best rhythm section for you guys that you know of? I'll be like, you guys that you know of? I'll be like, you guys that you know of? I'll be like, well, well, well, that's kind of Adam and Larry, isn't it, that's kind of Adam and Larry, isn't it, that's kind of Adam and Larry, isn't it, really? Okay, so it's going to be a solo really? Okay, so it's going to be a solo really? Okay, so it's going to be a solo band, it's going to be Bono on vocals, band, it's going to be Bono on vocals, band, it's going to be Bono on vocals, I'll be guitar player, Adam and Larry I'll be guitar player, Adam and Larry I'll be guitar player, Adam and Larry will be the rhythm section. I basically will be the rhythm section. I basically will be the rhythm section. I basically redesign you two. So, redesign you two. So, redesign you two. So, yeah, that's uh there's no doubt about yeah, that's uh there's no doubt about yeah, that's uh there's no doubt about it. This is where I belong.

it. This is where I belong. it. This is where I belong. >> More likely I think that people tire of >> More likely I think that people tire of >> More likely I think that people tire of you and you and you and and that we tire of going the distance and that we tire of going the distance and that we tire of going the distance to meet them. to meet them. to meet them. Resulting in them tiring of you. I think Resulting in them tiring of you. I think Resulting in them tiring of you. I think if we kept if we kept if we kept playing live, there's always playing live, there's always playing live, there's always till we drop, there'll be people. till we drop, there'll be people. till we drop, there'll be people. But we have one problem But we have one problem But we have one problem in this regard, in this regard, in this regard, which is we pledged to each other when which is we pledged to each other when which is we pledged to each other when we were we were we were 18, 17, 16, whatever, 18, 17, 16, whatever, 18, 17, 16, whatever, that we would never ever walk onto a that we would never ever walk onto a that we would never ever walk onto a stage stage stage without it being without it being without it being to you know, without it being to you know, without it being to you know, without it being everything. everything. everything. And And And we haven't betrayed that yet. we haven't betrayed that yet. we haven't betrayed that yet. We've we've had physical We've we've had physical We've we've had physical you know, fist fights on stage, we've you know, fist fights on stage, we've you know, fist fights on stage, we've had them backstage, we've had had them backstage, we've had had them backstage, we've had madness. madness. madness. Um, [clears throat] Um, [clears throat] Um, [clears throat] but we've never betrayed that. but we've never betrayed that. but we've never betrayed that. >> Yeah, it never was entertainment to us, >> Yeah, it never was entertainment to us, >> Yeah, it never was entertainment to us, ever. It was always ever. It was always ever. It was always something with a lot more importance and something with a lot more importance and something with a lot more importance and meaning and the the some of the early meaning and the the some of the early meaning and the the some of the early shows we saw were like The Clash on shows we saw were like The Clash on shows we saw were like The Clash on their first tour.

their first tour. their first tour. Uh, the Buzzcocks, I saw them. Uh, the Buzzcocks, I saw them. Uh, the Buzzcocks, I saw them. Uh, the Jam. Uh, the Jam. Uh, the Jam. Um, and then Talking Heads went on the Um, and then Talking Heads went on the Um, and then Talking Heads went on the road with Talking Heads. So, road with Talking Heads. So, road with Talking Heads. So, when you're around that kind of when you're around that kind of when you're around that kind of sense of urgency and and sense of urgency and and sense of urgency and and and political, you know, and political, you know, and political, you know, I suppose the ideal ideological aspect, I suppose the ideal ideological aspect, I suppose the ideal ideological aspect, it's like you can't you can't take this it's like you can't you can't take this it's like you can't you can't take this stuff lightly. It's like it's way more stuff lightly. It's like it's way more stuff lightly. It's like it's way more than just entertainment. than just entertainment. than just entertainment. >> It's the thing that they said about, you >> It's the thing that they said about, you >> It's the thing that they said about, you know, football. know, football. know, football. They can say it about music, which it's They can say it about music, which it's They can say it about music, which it's not a matter of life and death. It's not a matter of life and death. It's not a matter of life and death. It's something much more serious than that. something much more serious than that. something much more serious than that. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Well, you it has been truly such a >> Well, you it has been truly such a >> Well, you it has been truly such a pleasure for me to come to Dublin and to pleasure for me to come to Dublin and to pleasure for me to come to Dublin and to see you guys play and go to your high see you guys play and go to your high see you guys play and go to your high school and and talk to you here today. school and and talk to you here today. school and and talk to you here today. So, thank you very very much. So, thank you very very much. So, thank you very very much. >> Thanks to you. I really appreciate it. >> Thanks to you. I really appreciate it. >> Thanks to you. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you very much. I really enjoyed >> Thank you very much. I really enjoyed >> Thank you very much. I really enjoyed talking to you, too. Next time, make it talking to you, too. Next time, make it talking to you, too. Next time, make it a real pub. a real pub. a real pub. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I'm in a pub where we can actually >> I'm in a pub where we can actually >> I'm in a pub where we can actually drink.

drink. drink. >> That's Bono and The Edge of U2. The >> That's Bono and The Edge of U2. The >> That's Bono and The Edge of U2. The band's new album, Carnival de Luze, will band's new album, Carnival de Luze, will band's new album, Carnival de Luze, will be released on November 13th. To watch be released on November 13th. To watch be released on November 13th. To watch this interview and many others, you can this interview and many others, you can this interview and many others, you can [music] subscribe to our YouTube channel [music] subscribe to our YouTube channel [music] subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/theinterviewpodcast. This conversation was produced by Wyatt This conversation was produced by Wyatt Orm. It was edited by John Woo. Mixing Orm. It was edited by John Woo. Mixing Orm. It was edited by John Woo. Mixing by Sophia Lanman. Original music by Dan by Sophia Lanman. Original music by Dan by Sophia Lanman. Original music by Dan Powell, Rowan Nemi Sto, and Maryanne Powell, Rowan Nemi Sto, and Maryanne Powell, Rowan Nemi Sto, and Maryanne Lozano. Lozano. Lozano. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> Photography by Philip Montgomery. The >> Photography by Philip Montgomery. The >> Photography by Philip Montgomery. The rest of the team is Priya Matthew, Seth rest of the team is Priya Matthew, Seth rest of the team is Priya Matthew, Seth Kelly, Paula Newdorf, Maya Tepler, Eddie Kelly, Paula Newdorf, Maya Tepler, Eddie Kelly, Paula Newdorf, Maya Tepler, Eddie Costus, [music] Costus, [music] Costus, [music] Jeremy Rocklin, Gabby Contreras, Jeremy Rocklin, Gabby Contreras, Jeremy Rocklin, Gabby Contreras, Kathleen O'Brien, and Brooke Minters. Kathleen O'Brien, and Brooke Minters. Kathleen O'Brien, and Brooke Minters. Our executive producer is Allison Our executive producer is Allison Our executive producer is Allison Benedict. I'm David Marchese, [music] Benedict. I'm David Marchese, [music] Benedict. I'm David Marchese, [music] and this is The Interview from The New and this is The Interview from The New and this is The Interview from The New York Times.