Aaron Sorkin on Mark Zuckerberg, Drug Addiction and the Movie He’s Embarrassed Of | The Interview

In my mind, In my mind, I did the coke and wrote a few good men, I did the coke and wrote a few good men, I did the coke and wrote a few good men, [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] you know, the next day. you know, the next day. you know, the next day. [music] [music] [music] I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro and today I'm in I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro and today I'm in I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro and today I'm in Beverly Hills interviewing Aaron Sorcin. Beverly Hills interviewing Aaron Sorcin. Beverly Hills interviewing Aaron Sorcin. The walk and talk. The walk and talk. The walk and talk. >> Billion dollars here, billion dollars >> Billion dollars here, billion dollars >> Billion dollars here, billion dollars there. Sooner or later it starts to add there. Sooner or later it starts to add there. Sooner or later it starts to add up [music] to real money. up [music] to real money. up [music] to real money. >> The snappy dialogue. >> The snappy dialogue. >> The snappy dialogue. >> You're really going to let him loose in >> You're really going to let him loose in >> You're really going to let him loose in the White House where there's liquor the White House where there's liquor the White House where there's liquor [music] and women? We can hide the [music] and women? We can hide the [music] and women? We can hide the women, but the man deserves a drink. women, but the man deserves a drink. women, but the man deserves a drink. >> The soaring monologues. >> The soaring monologues. >> The soaring monologues. >> We stood up for what was right. >> We stood up for what was right. >> We stood up for what was right. >> His work often dramatizes the >> His work often dramatizes the >> His work often dramatizes the institutions that shape American institutions that shape American institutions that shape American society, like [music] the presidency in society, like [music] the presidency in society, like [music] the presidency in his hit TV show, The West Wing, or big his hit TV show, The West Wing, or big his hit TV show, The West Wing, or big tech in The Social Network about Mark tech in The Social Network about Mark tech in The Social Network about Mark Zuckerberg and [music] the founding of Zuckerberg and [music] the founding of Zuckerberg and [music] the founding of Facebook. Facebook. Facebook. >> If you guys were the inventors of >> If you guys were the inventors of >> If you guys were the inventors of Facebook, Facebook, Facebook, you'd have invented Facebook. you'd have invented Facebook. you'd have invented Facebook. >> Now 16 years later, Sorcin's back >> Now 16 years later, Sorcin's back >> Now 16 years later, Sorcin's back [music] with a follow-up to the social [music] with a follow-up to the social [music] with a follow-up to the social network. It's called The Social network. It's called The Social network. It's called The Social Reckoning. Reckoning. Reckoning. >> Facebook isn't the ref. That's the >> Facebook isn't the ref. That's the >> Facebook isn't the ref. That's the point. That's the point, Charlie. point. That's the point, Charlie. point. That's the point, Charlie. >> He both wrote and [music] directed the >> He both wrote and [music] directed the >> He both wrote and [music] directed the film, which focuses on real life film, which focuses on real life film, which focuses on real life whistleblower Francis Hogan. So, why whistleblower Francis Hogan. So, why whistleblower Francis Hogan. So, why revisit Facebook [music] after all these revisit Facebook [music] after all these revisit Facebook [music] after all these years? Here's my conversation with years? Here's my conversation with years? Here's my conversation with writer and director [music] Aaron writer and director [music] Aaron writer and director [music] Aaron Sorcin. But first, a quick message. If Sorcin. But first, a quick message. If Sorcin. But first, a quick message. If you're not a subscriber, and you should you're not a subscriber, and you should you're not a subscriber, and you should be, we have some [music] news for you.

be, we have some [music] news for you. be, we have some [music] news for you. You can explore the Times for free You can explore the Times for free You can explore the Times for free without pay walls during your first without pay walls during your first without pay walls during your first month in the New York Times app. Just month in the New York Times app. Just month in the New York Times app. Just download the app and we hope you enjoy download the app and we hope you enjoy download the app and we hope you enjoy it. [music] Now, on to the interview. it. [music] Now, on to the interview. it. [music] Now, on to the interview. Erin Soren, thank you so much for coming Erin Soren, thank you so much for coming Erin Soren, thank you so much for coming on the interview. It's great to have on the interview. It's great to have on the interview. It's great to have you. you. you. >> It's my pleasure. >> It's my pleasure. >> It's my pleasure. >> Uh, I want to start with a big question >> Uh, I want to start with a big question >> Uh, I want to start with a big question uh before we dig into your latest work. uh before we dig into your latest work. uh before we dig into your latest work. Andrew Breitbart, um, the founder of the Andrew Breitbart, um, the founder of the Andrew Breitbart, um, the founder of the right-wing website Breitbart News, would right-wing website Breitbart News, would right-wing website Breitbart News, would say often that politics is downstream say often that politics is downstream say often that politics is downstream from culture, right? And what he was from culture, right? And what he was from culture, right? And what he was saying essentially is that Hollywood is saying essentially is that Hollywood is saying essentially is that Hollywood is sometimes sometimes sometimes more influential. It has more sway over more influential. It has more sway over more influential. It has more sway over our politics than Washington does. our politics than Washington does. our politics than Washington does. >> You've written stories that use our >> You've written stories that use our >> You've written stories that use our politics and institutions as a backdrop politics and institutions as a backdrop politics and institutions as a backdrop so many times. The West Wing, The so many times. The West Wing, The so many times. The West Wing, The American President, Charlie Wilson's American President, Charlie Wilson's American President, Charlie Wilson's War, The Newsroom, The Trial of the War, The Newsroom, The Trial of the War, The Newsroom, The Trial of the Chicago 7, and some might add The Social Chicago 7, and some might add The Social Chicago 7, and some might add The Social Network and your new film, The Social Network and your new film, The Social Network and your new film, The Social Reckoning, to that, and we're going to Reckoning, to that, and we're going to Reckoning, to that, and we're going to talk about that in a minute. How do you talk about that in a minute. How do you talk about that in a minute. How do you view your role in in that equation?

view your role in in that equation? view your role in in that equation? >> It's not a political agenda. I think >> It's not a political agenda. I think >> It's not a political agenda. I think before a movie can be anything else, before a movie can be anything else, before a movie can be anything else, before it can be thought-provoking or before it can be thought-provoking or before it can be thought-provoking or relevant, uh, it has to be good. It has relevant, uh, it has to be good. It has relevant, uh, it has to be good. It has to work as a movie. It has to work as to work as a movie. It has to work as to work as a movie. It has to work as something that you watch while while something that you watch while while something that you watch while while you're eating popcorn. Uh so that's what you're eating popcorn. Uh so that's what you're eating popcorn. Uh so that's what I'm thinking about uh while I'm writing. I'm thinking about uh while I'm writing. I'm thinking about uh while I'm writing. Beyond that, I write idealistically and Beyond that, I write idealistically and Beyond that, I write idealistically and romantically. romantically. romantically. >> You've said that. >> You've said that. >> You've said that. >> I find that these areas, >> I find that these areas, >> I find that these areas, government, uh the news, journalists, uh government, uh the news, journalists, uh government, uh the news, journalists, uh they're that's where the stories are. Uh they're that's where the stories are. Uh they're that's where the stories are. Uh there there are just stories there that there there are just stories there that there there are just stories there that really suit uh the way I like to write. really suit uh the way I like to write. really suit uh the way I like to write. >> Well, explain that though because you >> Well, explain that though because you >> Well, explain that though because you know in 2020 you told my colleague David know in 2020 you told my colleague David know in 2020 you told my colleague David Marches that you like writing Heroes Marches that you like writing Heroes Marches that you like writing Heroes Without Capes because it makes us feel Without Capes because it makes us feel Without Capes because it makes us feel as though greatness is achievable and as though greatness is achievable and as though greatness is achievable and again you you invoke these words again you you invoke these words again you you invoke these words romantic, idealistic, you've used these romantic, idealistic, you've used these romantic, idealistic, you've used these words a lot words a lot words a lot >> and I guess not to be trit but do you >> and I guess not to be trit but do you >> and I guess not to be trit but do you write to make the world a better place?

write to make the world a better place? write to make the world a better place? >> No, let's be really clear. I I I write >> No, let's be really clear. I I I write >> No, let's be really clear. I I I write to uh in some way captivate you for the to uh in some way captivate you for the to uh in some way captivate you for the two hours that I've asked for your two hours that I've asked for your two hours that I've asked for your attention uh uh while you're in in the attention uh uh while you're in in the attention uh uh while you're in in the theater. I take a lot of pride in the theater. I take a lot of pride in the theater. I take a lot of pride in the fact that uh there are people who tell fact that uh there are people who tell fact that uh there are people who tell me that they got into public service me that they got into public service me that they got into public service because they watch the West Wing. Um uh because they watch the West Wing. Um uh because they watch the West Wing. Um uh I I I really do. Uh, and I I I really do. Uh, and I I I really do. Uh, and in terms of heroes without capes, uh, I in terms of heroes without capes, uh, I in terms of heroes without capes, uh, I I'll, um, you know, from time to time, I'll, um, you know, from time to time, I'll, um, you know, from time to time, uh, you'll, you'll be watching the news uh, you'll, you'll be watching the news uh, you'll, you'll be watching the news and someone will say something like, and someone will say something like, and someone will say something like, there's not going to be a Westwing there's not going to be a Westwing there's not going to be a Westwing moment here. Don't expect a Westwing moment here. Don't expect a Westwing moment here. Don't expect a Westwing moment when, you know, when when we moment when, you know, when when we moment when, you know, when when we can't agree on the debt ceiling, the can't agree on the debt ceiling, the can't agree on the debt ceiling, the government's going to shut down. There's government's going to shut down. There's government's going to shut down. There's not going to be a a Westwing moment. Um not going to be a a Westwing moment. Um not going to be a a Westwing moment. Um >> meaning that there's not going to be a >> meaning that there's not going to be a >> meaning that there's not going to be a resolution resolution resolution bipartisan where people come together to bipartisan where people come together to bipartisan where people come together to do the better thing. do the better thing. do the better thing. >> Yes. meaning no one is going to step up >> Yes. meaning no one is going to step up >> Yes. meaning no one is going to step up and be a for let's set the Westwing and be a for let's set the Westwing and be a for let's set the Westwing aside be a Frank Kappa-esque uh uh aside be a Frank Kappa-esque uh uh aside be a Frank Kappa-esque uh uh character and that the stuff that I character and that the stuff that I character and that the stuff that I write when it's not you know Moneyball write when it's not you know Moneyball write when it's not you know Moneyball or Charlie Wilson's War uh uh Steve Jobs or Charlie Wilson's War uh uh Steve Jobs or Charlie Wilson's War uh uh Steve Jobs you know I I I'm told a lot that it it's you know I I I'm told a lot that it it's you know I I I'm told a lot that it it's an optimistic an optimistic an optimistic fantasy fantasy fantasy >> um and >> um and >> um and >> and you just use those words romantic >> and you just use those words romantic >> and you just use those words romantic you know you know you know >> yes um And it is however it does not >> yes um And it is however it does not >> yes um And it is however it does not require supernatural powers to do those

require supernatural powers to do those require supernatural powers to do those things. Um that uh it it's nice that we things. Um that uh it it's nice that we things. Um that uh it it's nice that we can kind of see what greatness looks can kind of see what greatness looks can kind of see what greatness looks like and aspire to that. like and aspire to that. like and aspire to that. >> Okay. I want to talk about how that view >> Okay. I want to talk about how that view >> Okay. I want to talk about how that view fits into your new movie um the social fits into your new movie um the social fits into your new movie um the social reckoning. reckoning. reckoning. >> It takes place from 2019 to 2021 and it >> It takes place from 2019 to 2021 and it >> It takes place from 2019 to 2021 and it follows a Facebook product manager named follows a Facebook product manager named follows a Facebook product manager named Francis Hogan who became a Francis Hogan who became a Francis Hogan who became a whistleblower. Her story was the basis whistleblower. Her story was the basis whistleblower. Her story was the basis of the Facebook Files which was reported of the Facebook Files which was reported of the Facebook Files which was reported by Jeff Horowitz of the Wall Street by Jeff Horowitz of the Wall Street by Jeff Horowitz of the Wall Street Journal. In 2022, uh you told the Journal. In 2022, uh you told the Journal. In 2022, uh you told the Guardian, "I very much doubt that I or Guardian, "I very much doubt that I or Guardian, "I very much doubt that I or anyone else is going to write a sequel anyone else is going to write a sequel anyone else is going to write a sequel to The Social Network." to The Social Network." to The Social Network." >> Famous last words, >> Famous last words, >> Famous last words, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Why didn't you think it was possible >> Why didn't you think it was possible >> Why didn't you think it was possible then? And what changed your mind? then? And what changed your mind? then? And what changed your mind? >> Okay. Well, let me say first, I'm not >> Okay. Well, let me say first, I'm not >> Okay. Well, let me say first, I'm not really sure you can call this a sequel. really sure you can call this a sequel. really sure you can call this a sequel. Um, you know what this is is another Um, you know what this is is another Um, you know what this is is another movie about Facebook written by the same movie about Facebook written by the same movie about Facebook written by the same writer who wrote The Social Network and writer who wrote The Social Network and writer who wrote The Social Network and one of the characters from The Social one of the characters from The Social one of the characters from The Social Network uh is in this as well but played Network uh is in this as well but played Network uh is in this as well but played by a different actor. by a different actor. by a different actor. >> Yes. Uh it's as if uh the character of >> Yes. Uh it's as if uh the character of >> Yes. Uh it's as if uh the character of Henry Hill showed up in Casino.

Henry Hill showed up in Casino. Henry Hill showed up in Casino. >> Uh that's what this is. to answer your >> Uh that's what this is. to answer your >> Uh that's what this is. to answer your question. Uh question. Uh question. Uh there were two reasons why in 2022 I uh there were two reasons why in 2022 I uh there were two reasons why in 2022 I uh I said that uh one was uh I had been uh I said that uh one was uh I had been uh I said that uh one was uh I had been uh uh there had been a few people in my uh there had been a few people in my uh there had been a few people in my world uh asking me for a while uh you world uh asking me for a while uh you world uh asking me for a while uh you you should write something else about you should write something else about you should write something else about Facebook. There's another story here, Facebook. There's another story here, Facebook. There's another story here, you know, after Cambridge Analytica. Um, you know, after Cambridge Analytica. Um, you know, after Cambridge Analytica. Um, there were a number of things along the there were a number of things along the there were a number of things along the way where where people thought I should way where where people thought I should way where where people thought I should revisit it and I just didn't want to be revisit it and I just didn't want to be revisit it and I just didn't want to be the writer of Jaws 2. Uh, you know, um, the writer of Jaws 2. Uh, you know, um, the writer of Jaws 2. Uh, you know, um, uh, I was afraid of that. But also, uh, I was afraid of that. But also, uh, I was afraid of that. But also, mostly mostly mostly I just couldn't find the story. I I just couldn't find the story. I I just couldn't find the story. I couldn't find the movie part of uh of couldn't find the movie part of uh of couldn't find the movie part of uh of what they were talking about until what they were talking about until what they were talking about until uh I started learning about Francis uh I started learning about Francis uh I started learning about Francis Hogan and Jeff [snorts] Harowitz uh and Hogan and Jeff [snorts] Harowitz uh and Hogan and Jeff [snorts] Harowitz uh and what it was they uh uncovered. You know, what it was they uh uncovered. You know, what it was they uh uncovered. You know, obviously in preparation to this, I went obviously in preparation to this, I went obviously in preparation to this, I went back to watch the social network again back to watch the social network again back to watch the social network again and it tells the story of the founding and it tells the story of the founding and it tells the story of the founding of Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg.

of Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg. of Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg. And I was really shocked um by how And I was really shocked um by how And I was really shocked um by how skeptical you were of social media. And skeptical you were of social media. And skeptical you were of social media. And this came out in 2010. This was the this came out in 2010. This was the this came out in 2010. This was the height of tech optimism when we were height of tech optimism when we were height of tech optimism when we were still sort of happily connecting with still sort of happily connecting with still sort of happily connecting with our uh high school friends and former our uh high school friends and former our uh high school friends and former sweethearts. What did you see that the sweethearts. What did you see that the sweethearts. What did you see that the rest of us didn't? rest of us didn't? rest of us didn't? >> Uh well, do you tell me what what are >> Uh well, do you tell me what what are >> Uh well, do you tell me what what are you seeing in that movie where where I you seeing in that movie where where I you seeing in that movie where where I was skeptical of social media? I think was skeptical of social media? I think was skeptical of social media? I think there's a sense in that that um Mark there's a sense in that that um Mark there's a sense in that that um Mark Zuckerberg has created something that Zuckerberg has created something that Zuckerberg has created something that yes allows us to connect but really why yes allows us to connect but really why yes allows us to connect but really why are we connecting and with whom and for are we connecting and with whom and for are we connecting and with whom and for what reason and perhaps that's a modern what reason and perhaps that's a modern what reason and perhaps that's a modern reading of that but at the time I look reading of that but at the time I look reading of that but at the time I look back at interviews and you did talk back at interviews and you did talk back at interviews and you did talk about how you weren't sure this was such about how you weren't sure this was such about how you weren't sure this was such a great technology a great technology a great technology >> what I remember uh is >> what I remember uh is >> what I remember uh is this very successful social network uh this very successful social network uh this very successful social network uh is being built by an extraordinarily is being built by an extraordinarily is being built by an extraordinarily antisocial guy. that this person uh who antisocial guy. that this person uh who antisocial guy. that this person uh who you know was uncomfortable kind of in you know was uncomfortable kind of in you know was uncomfortable kind of in the social structure of of college the the social structure of of college the the social structure of of college the way many of us are way many of us are way many of us are >> invented his own social structure that >> invented his own social structure that >> invented his own social structure that he couldn't be shut out of the way he he couldn't be shut out of the way he he couldn't be shut out of the way he was shut out of the final clubs and the was shut out of the final clubs and the was shut out of the final clubs and the social network uh and uh you know he'd social network uh and uh you know he'd social network uh and uh you know he'd be the mayor uh of that social structure be the mayor uh of that social structure be the mayor uh of that social structure that was I mean the social network was that was I mean the social network was that was I mean the social network was how uh this the Facebook was invented

how uh this the Facebook was invented how uh this the Facebook was invented social reckoning is about what Facebook social reckoning is about what Facebook social reckoning is about what Facebook has become and in particular the role has become and in particular the role has become and in particular the role that it has played and continues to play that it has played and continues to play that it has played and continues to play in the rise of extremism and in the rise of extremism and in the rise of extremism and divisiveness in this country divisiveness in this country divisiveness in this country >> and we'll get to that but one more >> and we'll get to that but one more >> and we'll get to that but one more question about the way you wrote that question about the way you wrote that question about the way you wrote that movie movie movie >> which is that Facebook was born out of >> which is that Facebook was born out of >> which is that Facebook was born out of Zuckerberg's sort of desire for revenge Zuckerberg's sort of desire for revenge Zuckerberg's sort of desire for revenge you've been asked before about your sort you've been asked before about your sort you've been asked before about your sort of responsibility to be fair to people of responsibility to be fair to people of responsibility to be fair to people when you're writing when you're writing when you're writing um stories that involve actual um stories that involve actual um stories that involve actual characters in real life. characters in real life. characters in real life. >> And you've said you're making a painting >> And you've said you're making a painting >> And you've said you're making a painting and not a photograph. and not a photograph. and not a photograph. >> But you know, looking back on that now, >> But you know, looking back on that now, >> But you know, looking back on that now, some of the details you changed are some of the details you changed are some of the details you changed are pretty big. That idea of this antisocial pretty big. That idea of this antisocial pretty big. That idea of this antisocial person creating this social network. I person creating this social network. I person creating this social network. I mean, he was dating his now wife, mean, he was dating his now wife, mean, he was dating his now wife, Priscilla Chan, at the time. And Priscilla Chan, at the time. And Priscilla Chan, at the time. And [clears throat] so it it wasn't exactly [clears throat] so it it wasn't exactly [clears throat] so it it wasn't exactly true, but it's become the sort of origin true, but it's become the sort of origin true, but it's become the sort of origin story that everyone understands about story that everyone understands about story that everyone understands about Facebook now.

Facebook now. Facebook now. >> Uh whether Mark was dating Priscilla >> Uh whether Mark was dating Priscilla >> Uh whether Mark was dating Priscilla Chan at the time or not, I I honestly Chan at the time or not, I I honestly Chan at the time or not, I I honestly don't know in all of the research. Her don't know in all of the research. Her don't know in all of the research. Her name never uh uh came up. But I think name never uh uh came up. But I think name never uh uh came up. But I think broadly speaking, your question is what broadly speaking, your question is what broadly speaking, your question is what am I willing to fictionalize when I'm am I willing to fictionalize when I'm am I willing to fictionalize when I'm telling the story of a real person who's telling the story of a real person who's telling the story of a real person who's still living? still living? still living? >> Right. And and because it's so >> Right. And and because it's so >> Right. And and because it's so important, because it's the way so many important, because it's the way so many important, because it's the way so many people understand things, people understand things, people understand things, >> what is fair? >> what is fair? >> what is fair? >> I would never defame uh uh someone, by >> I would never defame uh uh someone, by >> I would never defame uh uh someone, by the way. I could never defame someone. the way. I could never defame someone. the way. I could never defame someone. It It's a really interesting area for It It's a really interesting area for It It's a really interesting area for for me because um I have especially for me because um I have especially for me because um I have especially lately uh uh done a lot of non-fiction lately uh uh done a lot of non-fiction lately uh uh done a lot of non-fiction uh and in some cases about people who uh and in some cases about people who uh and in some cases about people who are still alive. The trial of the are still alive. The trial of the are still alive. The trial of the Chicago 7, for example, Chicago 7, for example, Chicago 7, for example, >> Chicago 7. >> Chicago 7. >> Chicago 7. >> Molly's >> Molly's >> Molly's >> Molly's game being the Ricardo Steve >> Molly's game being the Ricardo Steve >> Molly's game being the Ricardo Steve Jobs. Jobs. Jobs. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, one critic once said, one critic once said, one critic once said, >> uh, and they they didn't mean it as an >> uh, and they they didn't mean it as an >> uh, and they they didn't mean it as an insult and and I didn't take it that insult and and I didn't take it that insult and and I didn't take it that way. They once said that when I write way. They once said that when I write way. They once said that when I write non-fiction, non-fiction, non-fiction, I'm really just using the characters for I'm really just using the characters for I'm really just using the characters for parts. Um, I use just really and they parts. Um, I use just really and they parts. Um, I use just really and they they had a point. there's an idea uh they had a point. there's an idea uh they had a point. there's an idea uh that I'll get uh about a a character's that I'll get uh about a a character's that I'll get uh about a a character's motivation uh like Markx they'll I'll do motivation uh like Markx they'll I'll do motivation uh like Markx they'll I'll do my research I'll I'll learn everything my research I'll I'll learn everything my research I'll I'll learn everything that I can uh uh about the reality I'll that I can uh uh about the reality I'll that I can uh uh about the reality I'll talk to as many people as I can read as talk to as many people as I can read as talk to as many people as I can read as much as I can but in the process of

much as I can but in the process of much as I can but in the process of thinking about it and then in the thinking about it and then in the thinking about it and then in the process of writing it process of writing it process of writing it >> it becomes the same as a fictional >> it becomes the same as a fictional >> it becomes the same as a fictional character uh uh for me it becomes my uh character uh uh for me it becomes my uh character uh uh for me it becomes my uh uh character uh character uh character uh uh that I'm creating the and it it uh uh that I'm creating the and it it uh uh that I'm creating the and it it sounds like you're going to get to it in sounds like you're going to get to it in sounds like you're going to get to it in a moment, but um the studios legal a moment, but um the studios legal a moment, but um the studios legal department will make sure uh uh that you department will make sure uh uh that you department will make sure uh uh that you know I'm staying inside the lines. Uh know I'm staying inside the lines. Uh know I'm staying inside the lines. Uh but it's this imaginary thing that's and but it's this imaginary thing that's and but it's this imaginary thing that's and and it has my voice and eventually it's and it has my voice and eventually it's and it has my voice and eventually it's going to be played by a you know an going to be played by a you know an going to be played by a you know an actor and it's going to have that face. actor and it's going to have that face. actor and it's going to have that face. But I will tell you that in terms of But I will tell you that in terms of But I will tell you that in terms of Mark in both cases, social network uh Mark in both cases, social network uh Mark in both cases, social network uh social reckoning social reckoning social reckoning or any anti-hero uh uh which is what or any anti-hero uh uh which is what or any anti-hero uh uh which is what Mark is. He's not a villain. Mark is. He's not a villain. Mark is. He's not a villain. >> Describe the difference for people who >> Describe the difference for people who >> Describe the difference for people who might not understand in in your mind might not understand in in your mind might not understand in in your mind what an anti-hero and and and a villain what an anti-hero and and and a villain what an anti-hero and and and a villain is. is. is. >> An anti-hero uh has good intentions. >> An anti-hero uh has good intentions. >> An anti-hero uh has good intentions. They think they're doing uh good. Um They think they're doing uh good. Um They think they're doing uh good. Um Jack Nicholson's character and a few Jack Nicholson's character and a few Jack Nicholson's character and a few good men. That was the first thing uh good men. That was the first thing uh good men. That was the first thing uh that I wrote. the whole speech about how that I wrote. the whole speech about how that I wrote. the whole speech about how he thinks uh that what he's doing is he thinks uh that what he's doing is he thinks uh that what he's doing is protecting America. I protecting America. I protecting America. I >> have neither the time nor the >> have neither the time nor the >> have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man inclination to explain myself to a man inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket who rises and sleeps under the blanket who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and of the very freedom that I provide and of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the MANNER IN WHICH I then questions the MANNER IN WHICH I then questions the MANNER IN WHICH I provide it. The Penguin, the Joker, they provide it. The Penguin, the Joker, they provide it. The Penguin, the Joker, they just want to rule Gotham City. Um uh just want to rule Gotham City. Um uh just want to rule Gotham City. Um uh those are villains. Uh the others are those are villains. Uh the others are those are villains. Uh the others are anti-heroes. And in the case of Mark or

anti-heroes. And in the case of Mark or anti-heroes. And in the case of Mark or again any anti-hero, again any anti-hero, again any anti-hero, I as the writer, I can't judge that I as the writer, I can't judge that I as the writer, I can't judge that character. I write that character as if character. I write that character as if character. I write that character as if they're making their case to God why they're making their case to God why they're making their case to God why they should get into heaven. they should get into heaven. they should get into heaven. >> You don't think Mark Zuckerberg is a >> You don't think Mark Zuckerberg is a >> You don't think Mark Zuckerberg is a villain? villain? villain? >> Are we talking about real Mark or my >> Are we talking about real Mark or my >> Are we talking about real Mark or my Mark? Mark? Mark? >> Well, tell me about the distinction. >> Well, tell me about the distinction. >> Well, tell me about the distinction. >> Okay. Uh I uh I I don't want to pass a >> Okay. Uh I uh I I don't want to pass a >> Okay. Uh I uh I I don't want to pass a judgment on uh on real Mark. I I'm not judgment on uh on real Mark. I I'm not judgment on uh on real Mark. I I'm not here for that. Um the mark in the social here for that. Um the mark in the social here for that. Um the mark in the social reckoning uh is an anti-hero uh not a reckoning uh is an anti-hero uh not a reckoning uh is an anti-hero uh not a villain. And I I just want to add that villain. And I I just want to add that villain. And I I just want to add that um um um the character and the person not only the character and the person not only the character and the person not only have me trying to defend them. Jeremy have me trying to defend them. Jeremy have me trying to defend them. Jeremy Strong uh who plays Strong uh who plays Strong uh who plays he's blows the doors off the place uh uh he's blows the doors off the place uh uh he's blows the doors off the place uh uh playing this part was constantly uh playing this part was constantly uh playing this part was constantly uh defending Mark to me not just on the set defending Mark to me not just on the set defending Mark to me not just on the set he he'd write to me uh uh late at night he he'd write to me uh uh late at night he he'd write to me uh uh late at night um and as soon as his last shot was over um and as soon as his last shot was over um and as soon as his last shot was over on his last day of shooting uh as soon on his last day of shooting uh as soon on his last day of shooting uh as soon as I called cut uh check the gate Jeremy as I called cut uh check the gate Jeremy as I called cut uh check the gate Jeremy Strong marched up to me and this was the Strong marched up to me and this was the Strong marched up to me and this was the first time I heard him use his own voice first time I heard him use his own voice first time I heard him use his own voice on the set, not Mark's voice in his own on the set, not Mark's voice in his own on the set, not Mark's voice in his own voice that if I'd been playing Jeff, I'd voice that if I'd been playing Jeff, I'd voice that if I'd been playing Jeff, I'd have been defending Jeff. Um, and I know have been defending Jeff. Um, and I know have been defending Jeff. Um, and I know exactly Mark Zuckerberg's case to God exactly Mark Zuckerberg's case to God exactly Mark Zuckerberg's case to God now. I mean, in in now. I mean, in in now. I mean, in in >> that he's uh bringing people closer >> that he's uh bringing people closer >> that he's uh bringing people closer together.

together. together. >> That's been his mission from the >> That's been his mission from the >> That's been his mission from the beginning. Uh I and I imagine that the beginning. Uh I and I imagine that the beginning. Uh I and I imagine that the advances that he's making with certain advances that he's making with certain advances that he's making with certain technology with AI and with the dumb technology with AI and with the dumb technology with AI and with the dumb glasses uh uh that you know he imagines glasses uh uh that you know he imagines glasses uh uh that you know he imagines those are steps forward for those are steps forward for those are steps forward for all of us. Just to stay with um Jeremy all of us. Just to stay with um Jeremy all of us. Just to stay with um Jeremy Strong's portrayal, um Jesse Eisenberg Strong's portrayal, um Jesse Eisenberg Strong's portrayal, um Jesse Eisenberg turned down the role and you know part turned down the role and you know part turned down the role and you know part of the reason he said he didn't want to of the reason he said he didn't want to of the reason he said he didn't want to do it is because he felt like he had do it is because he felt like he had do it is because he felt like he had been so identified with that role and he been so identified with that role and he been so identified with that role and he was tired of people coming up to him and was tired of people coming up to him and was tired of people coming up to him and saying saying saying >> it's the only reason he said he didn't >> it's the only reason he said he didn't >> it's the only reason he said he didn't want to do it. want to do it. want to do it. >> He does not want to be conflated uh with >> He does not want to be conflated uh with >> He does not want to be conflated uh with this character anymore. He he really this character anymore. He he really this character anymore. He he really doesn't like Mark Zuckerberg. He would doesn't like Mark Zuckerberg. He would doesn't like Mark Zuckerberg. He would talk about being in airports at the talk about being in airports at the talk about being in airports at the baggage claim and young kids, you know, baggage claim and young kids, you know, baggage claim and young kids, you know, 13, 14 year old kids coming up to him 13, 14 year old kids coming up to him 13, 14 year old kids coming up to him wanting them wanting him to sign a wanting them wanting him to sign a wanting them wanting him to sign a business card that said, "I'm CEO business card that said, "I'm CEO business card that said, "I'm CEO bitch." Uh, and things like that that he bitch." Uh, and things like that that he bitch." Uh, and things like that that he doesn't like that he kind of kind of doesn't like that he kind of kind of doesn't like that he kind of kind of looks like the guy and um uh uh just looks like the guy and um uh uh just looks like the guy and um uh uh just wouldn't do it. And you know, he meant wouldn't do it. And you know, he meant wouldn't do it. And you know, he meant it too because uh it too because uh it too because uh he was offered every he was offered every he was offered every incentive that usually works with uh uh incentive that usually works with uh uh incentive that usually works with uh uh with actors. Uh but so Jesse wasn't with actors. Uh but so Jesse wasn't with actors. Uh but so Jesse wasn't going to do it. Jeremy was the next going to do it. Jeremy was the next going to do it. Jeremy was the next call. And as it turned out, I mean, it call. And as it turned out, I mean, it call. And as it turned out, I mean, it was like replacing Joe Deaggio with was like replacing Joe Deaggio with was like replacing Joe Deaggio with Mickey Mantel.

Mickey Mantel. Mickey Mantel. >> In a recent interview, Strong said he >> In a recent interview, Strong said he >> In a recent interview, Strong said he reached out via email to Zuckerberg and reached out via email to Zuckerberg and reached out via email to Zuckerberg and Zuckerberg wrote back. Zuckerberg wrote back. Zuckerberg wrote back. >> Yeah, I read that. That was >> Yeah, I read that. That was >> Yeah, I read that. That was >> Did you know? >> Did you know? >> Did you know? >> No. Oh, and I had no idea. [laughter] >> No. Oh, and I had no idea. [laughter] >> No. Oh, and I had no idea. [laughter] >> Do you know what they said to each >> Do you know what they said to each >> Do you know what they said to each other? Have you asked him? other? Have you asked him? other? Have you asked him? >> I No, I've I I I read it as we taped >> I No, I've I I I read it as we taped >> I No, I've I I I read it as we taped this yesterday. this yesterday. this yesterday. >> That's interesting. He didn't tell you. >> That's interesting. He didn't tell you. >> That's interesting. He didn't tell you. Why do you think he didn't tell you? Why do you think he didn't tell you? Why do you think he didn't tell you? >> I don't know. Um I It's >> I don't know. Um I It's >> I don't know. Um I It's I'm I'm not shocked that he didn't. I'm I'm not shocked that he didn't. I'm I'm not shocked that he didn't. Jeremy does Jeremy does Jeremy does a lot of his own work. He does a a lot of his own work. He does a a lot of his own work. He does a tremendous amount of work before he tremendous amount of work before he tremendous amount of work before he shows up uh on your set. Uh and he was I shows up uh on your set. Uh and he was I shows up uh on your set. Uh and he was I I meant it when he said he he did not I meant it when he said he he did not I meant it when he said he he did not speak in his own voice on the set or or speak in his own voice on the set or or speak in his own voice on the set or or walk the way Jeremy walks. He spoke walk the way Jeremy walks. He spoke walk the way Jeremy walks. He spoke >> completely immersed. >> completely immersed. >> completely immersed. >> That's Jeremy's process. I had told uh >> That's Jeremy's process. I had told uh >> That's Jeremy's process. I had told uh all the other actors in his scenes um uh all the other actors in his scenes um uh all the other actors in his scenes um uh you know you know you know guys, he's not going to be hanging out guys, he's not going to be hanging out guys, he's not going to be hanging out with you uh at craft service. He's not with you uh at craft service. He's not with you uh at craft service. He's not going to be yucking it up with you uh going to be yucking it up with you uh going to be yucking it up with you uh between takes. He's probably not going between takes. He's probably not going between takes. He's probably not going to speak to you at all. He is going to to speak to you at all. He is going to to speak to you at all. He is going to treat you the way he imagines Mark treat you the way he imagines Mark treat you the way he imagines Mark treats the people uh around him. He is treats the people uh around him. He is treats the people uh around him. He is just going to be living with this for I just going to be living with this for I just going to be living with this for I think it was eight or nine days of think it was eight or nine days of think it was eight or nine days of shooting. Uh uh they had um and and shooting. Uh uh they had um and and shooting. Uh uh they had um and and that's what happened and uh you cannot that's what happened and uh you cannot that's what happened and uh you cannot argue with the results.

argue with the results. argue with the results. >> Was it hard to get the new movie made? >> Was it hard to get the new movie made? >> Was it hard to get the new movie made? Because we've seen other films about Because we've seen other films about Because we've seen other films about technology companies having trouble in technology companies having trouble in technology companies having trouble in Hollywood these days. I'm thinking of Hollywood these days. I'm thinking of Hollywood these days. I'm thinking of Artificial, the film about Sam Alman, Artificial, the film about Sam Alman, Artificial, the film about Sam Alman, >> which got dropped by Amazon Studios and >> which got dropped by Amazon Studios and >> which got dropped by Amazon Studios and Loren Pal Jobs, the widow of Steve Jobs, Loren Pal Jobs, the widow of Steve Jobs, Loren Pal Jobs, the widow of Steve Jobs, tried to kill your biopic of him. Has tried to kill your biopic of him. Has tried to kill your biopic of him. Has Meadow ever warned or threatened you Meadow ever warned or threatened you Meadow ever warned or threatened you over the social reckoning? over the social reckoning? over the social reckoning? >> Uh, I I I'm for Let me answer your >> Uh, I I I'm for Let me answer your >> Uh, I I I'm for Let me answer your question. Was it hard to get the movie question. Was it hard to get the movie question. Was it hard to get the movie made? Incredibly, no, it was not. Um, made? Incredibly, no, it was not. Um, made? Incredibly, no, it was not. Um, and the reason why is Tom Rothman, uh, and the reason why is Tom Rothman, uh, and the reason why is Tom Rothman, uh, uh, who's the head of Sony. Okay. um uh, who's the head of Sony. Okay. um uh, who's the head of Sony. Okay. um >> which is who made the first film >> which is who made the first film >> which is who made the first film obviously with they did um obviously with they did um obviously with they did um uh there's uh you know it's not like it uh there's uh you know it's not like it uh there's uh you know it's not like it was a no-brainer uh uh to greenlight was a no-brainer uh uh to greenlight was a no-brainer uh uh to greenlight this and aside from everything else you this and aside from everything else you this and aside from everything else you also have this phenomenally uh uh also have this phenomenally uh uh also have this phenomenally uh uh powerful company with limitless uh uh powerful company with limitless uh uh powerful company with limitless uh uh resources who can see you at the drop of resources who can see you at the drop of resources who can see you at the drop of a hat. Um, I'm pretty sure that uh uh a hat. Um, I'm pretty sure that uh uh a hat. Um, I'm pretty sure that uh uh it's my understanding that Sony did get it's my understanding that Sony did get it's my understanding that Sony did get letters uh uh from Meta and I do not letters uh uh from Meta and I do not letters uh uh from Meta and I do not think those letters said, "We're wishing think those letters said, "We're wishing think those letters said, "We're wishing you all the luck in the world. You know, you all the luck in the world. You know, you all the luck in the world. You know, get send us some tickets for opening get send us some tickets for opening get send us some tickets for opening night." [laughter] night." [laughter] night." [laughter] >> Um, under ordinary circumstances, >> Um, under ordinary circumstances, >> Um, under ordinary circumstances, uh, with a piece of non-fiction, the uh, with a piece of non-fiction, the uh, with a piece of non-fiction, the studios legal department would do a studios legal department would do a studios legal department would do a thorough vet. with this movie.

thorough vet. with this movie. thorough vet. with this movie. Uh they hired an outside law firm. Oh Uh they hired an outside law firm. Oh Uh they hired an outside law firm. Oh wow. Just to handle the legal vet on wow. Just to handle the legal vet on wow. Just to handle the legal vet on this movie uh to make sure that every this movie uh to make sure that every this movie uh to make sure that every single thing that is presented as a fact single thing that is presented as a fact single thing that is presented as a fact uh is a fact. uh is a fact. uh is a fact. >> Nerve-wracking. >> Nerve-wracking. >> Nerve-wracking. >> No, it's agonizing. um uh the the and >> No, it's agonizing. um uh the the and >> No, it's agonizing. um uh the the and the things that that I wasn't able to say or do uh Oh, that I wasn't able to say or do uh Oh, really? Uh are are agonizing, but uh I really? Uh are are agonizing, but uh I really? Uh are are agonizing, but uh I will say and the irony wasn't lost on will say and the irony wasn't lost on will say and the irony wasn't lost on anybody that we were doing a thorough anybody that we were doing a thorough anybody that we were doing a thorough fact check of a movie about a company fact check of a movie about a company fact check of a movie about a company unwilling to do the same thing. unwilling to do the same thing. unwilling to do the same thing. >> In 2019, you had this very public back >> In 2019, you had this very public back >> In 2019, you had this very public back and forth with Mark Zuckerberg. um you and forth with Mark Zuckerberg. um you and forth with Mark Zuckerberg. um you wrote an open letter to him in the New wrote an open letter to him in the New wrote an open letter to him in the New York Times opinion pages um where you York Times opinion pages um where you York Times opinion pages um where you said that Facebook was quote assaulting said that Facebook was quote assaulting said that Facebook was quote assaulting truth by allowing lies to be pumped into truth by allowing lies to be pumped into truth by allowing lies to be pumped into the ecosystem. And then in what seemed the ecosystem. And then in what seemed the ecosystem. And then in what seemed like a response, Zuckerberg posted a like a response, Zuckerberg posted a like a response, Zuckerberg posted a quote from your America isn't easy quote from your America isn't easy quote from your America isn't easy speech from the American president which speech from the American president which speech from the American president which talks about the value of free speech and talks about the value of free speech and talks about the value of free speech and the importance of free speech.

the importance of free speech. the importance of free speech. Is this new film a continuation of that Is this new film a continuation of that Is this new film a continuation of that argument that you two seem to be engaged argument that you two seem to be engaged argument that you two seem to be engaged in over time? in over time? in over time? >> Yeah, it is. as a matter of fact. Um >> Yeah, it is. as a matter of fact. Um >> Yeah, it is. as a matter of fact. Um because because because and this was I I think I I wrote that in and this was I I think I I wrote that in and this was I I think I I wrote that in 2019. Yeah. Okay. Um it was and I wrote 2019. Yeah. Okay. Um it was and I wrote 2019. Yeah. Okay. Um it was and I wrote it as a response to Facebook announcing it as a response to Facebook announcing it as a response to Facebook announcing that they were no longer fact-checking that they were no longer fact-checking that they were no longer fact-checking political ads. political ads. political ads. >> Um uh which is an argument that uh that >> Um uh which is an argument that uh that >> Um uh which is an argument that uh that happens in this film. happens in this film. happens in this film. >> I I saw the response that you're talking >> I I saw the response that you're talking >> I I saw the response that you're talking about where they quote Shephard speech about where they quote Shephard speech about where they quote Shephard speech from the American president uh about how from the American president uh about how from the American president uh about how about free speech and about how you know about free speech and about how you know about free speech and about how you know the American citizenship is is hard. You the American citizenship is is hard. You the American citizenship is is hard. You got to want it. got to want it. got to want it. >> You want free speech. Let's see you >> You want free speech. Let's see you >> You want free speech. Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your acknowledge a man whose words make your acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage blood boil, who's standing center stage blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs and advocating at the top of his lungs and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime that which you would spend a lifetime that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. Uh, I opposing at the top of yours. Uh, I opposing at the top of yours. Uh, I found it a little aggravating because found it a little aggravating because found it a little aggravating because there's no chance that Mark, who's a there's no chance that Mark, who's a there's no chance that Mark, who's a very smart guy and the people around him very smart guy and the people around him very smart guy and the people around him who are very smart people don't know the who are very smart people don't know the who are very smart people don't know the difference between an unpopular opinion difference between an unpopular opinion difference between an unpopular opinion and a lie. Uh, the the First Amendment and a lie. Uh, the the First Amendment and a lie. Uh, the the First Amendment doesn't protect lies. Uh, if it did, doesn't protect lies. Uh, if it did, doesn't protect lies. Uh, if it did, nobody would ever win a liel suit.

nobody would ever win a liel suit. nobody would ever win a liel suit. >> So, >> So, >> So, in some ways, this is your response. in some ways, this is your response. in some ways, this is your response. I found a story to tell. I found a good I found a story to tell. I found a good I found a story to tell. I found a good story to tell where you can eat popcorn story to tell where you can eat popcorn story to tell where you can eat popcorn and milk duds. and milk duds. and milk duds. >> You know, this is a classic underdog >> You know, this is a classic underdog >> You know, this is a classic underdog story. And there is something really story. And there is something really story. And there is something really hopeful about a regular person taking on hopeful about a regular person taking on hopeful about a regular person taking on a behemoth like Facebook and the way a behemoth like Facebook and the way a behemoth like Facebook and the way you've told it is this hero's journey you've told it is this hero's journey you've told it is this hero's journey through Francis Hogan's uh tale. But, through Francis Hogan's uh tale. But, through Francis Hogan's uh tale. But, you know, um I was just reading an you know, um I was just reading an you know, um I was just reading an interview that she gave this summer and interview that she gave this summer and interview that she gave this summer and she said, "We are worse off today than she said, "We are worse off today than she said, "We are worse off today than when I leaked the documents." And Jeff when I leaked the documents." And Jeff when I leaked the documents." And Jeff Horowitz, the watchdog reporter that is Horowitz, the watchdog reporter that is Horowitz, the watchdog reporter that is also sort of lionized in the film. also sort of lionized in the film. also sort of lionized in the film. >> He was effectively downsized out of his >> He was effectively downsized out of his >> He was effectively downsized out of his job at the Wall Street Journal. He's now job at the Wall Street Journal. He's now job at the Wall Street Journal. He's now working at Reuters. working at Reuters. working at Reuters. >> And Congress doesn't seem to be anywhere >> And Congress doesn't seem to be anywhere >> And Congress doesn't seem to be anywhere close to regulating online safety. Um I close to regulating online safety. Um I close to regulating online safety. Um I mean, I hate to just categorize. You're mean, I hate to just categorize. You're mean, I hate to just categorize. You're saying it hasn't been fixed? saying it hasn't been fixed? saying it hasn't been fixed? >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> I thought it was fixed. >> I thought it was fixed. >> I thought it was fixed. >> I mean, I guess I guess [laughter] >> I mean, I guess I guess [laughter] >> I mean, I guess I guess [laughter] >> I guess aren't things bleeer than >> I guess aren't things bleeer than >> I guess aren't things bleeer than perhaps you're portraying in the film?

perhaps you're portraying in the film? perhaps you're portraying in the film? >> Yes. Um, uh, but let me uh let me just >> Yes. Um, uh, but let me uh let me just >> Yes. Um, uh, but let me uh let me just expand a little bit on what she just expand a little bit on what she just expand a little bit on what she just said. Okay. said. Okay. said. Okay. >> Francis Hagen is uh someone who an >> Francis Hagen is uh someone who an >> Francis Hagen is uh someone who an incredibly employable person. Um, a incredibly employable person. Um, a incredibly employable person. Um, a young woman could have gotten a job young woman could have gotten a job young woman could have gotten a job anywhere. wanted to come work at anywhere. wanted to come work at anywhere. wanted to come work at Facebook because Facebook had at the Facebook because Facebook had at the Facebook because Facebook had at the time something called a civic integrity time something called a civic integrity time something called a civic integrity team. team. team. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> The civic integrity team was supposed to >> The civic integrity team was supposed to >> The civic integrity team was supposed to be the one team at Facebook. They they be the one team at Facebook. They they be the one team at Facebook. They they take an oath and everything. Supposed to take an oath and everything. Supposed to take an oath and everything. Supposed to be the one team at Facebook that does be the one team at Facebook that does be the one team at Facebook that does not care about growth. Okay? That their not care about growth. Okay? That their not care about growth. Okay? That their only thing is safety. It was the civic only thing is safety. It was the civic only thing is safety. It was the civic integrity team that came to Mark and integrity team that came to Mark and integrity team that came to Mark and said, "We have found a way to reduce said, "We have found a way to reduce said, "We have found a way to reduce misinformation by 34%." Um, misinformation by 34%." Um, misinformation by 34%." Um, the civic integrity team was dissolved. the civic integrity team was dissolved. the civic integrity team was dissolved. Uh, and that's part of what sent Francis Uh, and that's part of what sent Francis Uh, and that's part of what sent Francis uh on her way uh uh on her way to being uh on her way uh uh on her way to being uh on her way uh uh on her way to being a whistleblower. She, as she says in the a whistleblower. She, as she says in the a whistleblower. She, as she says in the movie, she did this because she wanted movie, she did this because she wanted movie, she did this because she wanted to help Facebook uh and not hurt it. Um to help Facebook uh and not hurt it. Um to help Facebook uh and not hurt it. Um >> she wanted it to be better.

>> she wanted it to be better. >> she wanted it to be better. >> Yeah. Yeah. She she really believed in >> Yeah. Yeah. She she really believed in >> Yeah. Yeah. She she really believed in its mission, believed in what it could its mission, believed in what it could its mission, believed in what it could be. Um and believed that people like her be. Um and believed that people like her be. Um and believed that people like her could uh could help her get there. This could uh could help her get there. This could uh could help her get there. This movie movie movie uh I want to say this without talking uh I want to say this without talking uh I want to say this without talking without giving away the end or really without giving away the end or really without giving away the end or really anything in the third act. Um but uh it anything in the third act. Um but uh it anything in the third act. Um but uh it ends on an optimistic note. ends on an optimistic note. ends on an optimistic note. >> It does >> It does >> It does >> um because >> um because >> um because of who wrote it. [laughter] Okay. It uh of who wrote it. [laughter] Okay. It uh of who wrote it. [laughter] Okay. It uh >> I'm glad to hear you acknowledge that. >> I'm glad to hear you acknowledge that. >> I'm glad to hear you acknowledge that. >> It ends on an optimistic note, but not a >> It ends on an optimistic note, but not a >> It ends on an optimistic note, but not a rosecoled uh uh I mean, it's upfront rosecoled uh uh I mean, it's upfront rosecoled uh uh I mean, it's upfront about um what's still wrong. It's just about um what's still wrong. It's just about um what's still wrong. It's just that David threw a rock at Goliath and that David threw a rock at Goliath and that David threw a rock at Goliath and and connected it. and connected it. and connected it. >> I mean, it starts with that question >> I mean, it starts with that question >> I mean, it starts with that question that I first asked you about making the that I first asked you about making the that I first asked you about making the world a better place. I mean, why are world a better place. I mean, why are world a better place. I mean, why are you keep why do you keep on being you keep why do you keep on being you keep why do you keep on being attracted to those particular types of attracted to those particular types of attracted to those particular types of characters? characters? characters? I think that you're asking me a very I think that you're asking me a very I think that you're asking me a very interesting question and I don't know interesting question and I don't know interesting question and I don't know the answer. Um I I I think uh the answer. Um I I I think uh the answer. Um I I I think uh I think it has to have something to do I think it has to have something to do I think it has to have something to do with my father. I always felt like he with my father. I always felt like he with my father. I always felt like he kind of had one foot in another century.

kind of had one foot in another century. kind of had one foot in another century. Uh uh you know he was just a [snorts] Uh uh you know he was just a [snorts] Uh uh you know he was just a [snorts] >> very sweet, very bright man. um for whom >> very sweet, very bright man. um for whom >> very sweet, very bright man. um for whom [snorts] decency [snorts] decency [snorts] decency was just the measure of a man. was just the measure of a man. was just the measure of a man. >> I wanted to talk a little bit actually >> I wanted to talk a little bit actually >> I wanted to talk a little bit actually about the way you grew up. about the way you grew up. about the way you grew up. >> Part of your family fled the Russian >> Part of your family fled the Russian >> Part of your family fled the Russian ghettos to come to the US. Right. ghettos to come to the US. Right. ghettos to come to the US. Right. >> Yeah. My father's uh uh parents um were >> Yeah. My father's uh uh parents um were >> Yeah. My father's uh uh parents um were were chased out of Russia uh by the Zars were chased out of Russia uh by the Zars were chased out of Russia uh by the Zars police. I've always been moved by the police. I've always been moved by the police. I've always been moved by the fact and they they fact and they they fact and they they >> because they were Jewish. >> because they were Jewish. >> because they were Jewish. >> Yeah. Yeah. um uh because they were >> Yeah. Yeah. um uh because they were >> Yeah. Yeah. um uh because they were Jewish and and you know they came here Jewish and and you know they came here Jewish and and you know they came here with $3 in their pocket uh that kind of with $3 in their pocket uh that kind of with $3 in their pocket uh that kind of as teenagers uh uh my grandparents did. as teenagers uh uh my grandparents did. as teenagers uh uh my grandparents did. They had my father uh who on his 18th They had my father uh who on his 18th They had my father uh who on his 18th birthday signed up for the army in the birthday signed up for the army in the birthday signed up for the army in the middle of World War II. When he got out, middle of World War II. When he got out, middle of World War II. When he got out, when he was done, when the war was over when he was done, when the war was over when he was done, when the war was over on the GI bill, he went to college and on the GI bill, he went to college and on the GI bill, he went to college and then law school. And in the course of then law school. And in the course of then law school. And in the course of one generation, the Sorcans went from one generation, the Sorcans went from one generation, the Sorcans went from lower middle class to upper middle lower middle class to upper middle lower middle class to upper middle class. [snorts] And that's what the class. [snorts] And that's what the class. [snorts] And that's what the right kind of government assistance can right kind of government assistance can right kind of government assistance can do.

do. do. >> When I'm hearing you talk about your >> When I'm hearing you talk about your >> When I'm hearing you talk about your dad, and I guess I've heard you also dad, and I guess I've heard you also dad, and I guess I've heard you also speak about your mom, what excuse me, speak about your mom, what excuse me, speak about your mom, what excuse me, >> did they understand about patriotism and >> did they understand about patriotism and >> did they understand about patriotism and duty and what we owe our country and duty and what we owe our country and duty and what we owe our country and what our country owes us? what our country owes us? what our country owes us? >> Yeah. Well, what they understood about >> Yeah. Well, what they understood about >> Yeah. Well, what they understood about patriotism patriotism patriotism uh wasn't the kind of bumper sticker uh wasn't the kind of bumper sticker uh wasn't the kind of bumper sticker patriotism that we try to get sold uh uh patriotism that we try to get sold uh uh patriotism that we try to get sold uh uh so often. I I was very little at the so often. I I was very little at the so often. I I was very little at the time when the Watergate hearings uh were time when the Watergate hearings uh were time when the Watergate hearings uh were happening, but I do remember watching happening, but I do remember watching happening, but I do remember watching them that summer, the um uh Sam Irvin's them that summer, the um uh Sam Irvin's them that summer, the um uh Sam Irvin's committee. committee. committee. And I didn't feel like my parents And I didn't feel like my parents And I didn't feel like my parents thought this was a national shame. Um I thought this was a national shame. Um I thought this was a national shame. Um I thought my parents felt like look at thought my parents felt like look at thought my parents felt like look at this, look at these guys railing against this, look at these guys railing against this, look at these guys railing against the most powerful person in the world. the most powerful person in the world. the most powerful person in the world. And on that day in August uh uh when And on that day in August uh uh when And on that day in August uh uh when Nixon resigned, it was nothing but pride Nixon resigned, it was nothing but pride Nixon resigned, it was nothing but pride that the most powerful person in the that the most powerful person in the that the most powerful person in the world is giving up power and there isn't world is giving up power and there isn't world is giving up power and there isn't a tank in the street. Um and so January a tank in the street. Um and so January a tank in the street. Um and so January 6 becomes a lot more heartbreaking. H 6 becomes a lot more heartbreaking. H 6 becomes a lot more heartbreaking. H >> and again without giving too much away >> and again without giving too much away >> and again without giving too much away um obviously that that January 6 um um obviously that that January 6 um um obviously that that January 6 um plays a role in your it comes up plays a role in your it comes up plays a role in your it comes up >> but I I believe in all of us you know >> but I I believe in all of us you know >> but I I believe in all of us you know even now I I believe in this country. I even now I I believe in this country. I even now I I believe in this country. I really do.

really do. really do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> When I say that again I'm just reminded >> When I say that again I'm just reminded >> When I say that again I'm just reminded of uh of my parents aversion of uh of my parents aversion of uh of my parents aversion to what they would call bumper sticker to what they would call bumper sticker to what they would call bumper sticker uh uh patriotism. It's a it's it's a uh uh patriotism. It's a it's it's a uh uh patriotism. It's a it's it's a different kind of belief than I think different kind of belief than I think different kind of belief than I think other people who call themselves other people who call themselves other people who call themselves patriots have. patriots have. patriots have. >> What is the distinction for you? >> What is the distinction for you? >> What is the distinction for you? >> One is cheerleading. Um >> One is cheerleading. Um >> One is cheerleading. Um uh and uh the other is uh a a belief in uh and uh the other is uh a a belief in uh and uh the other is uh a a belief in in these institutions. Um I'm laughing in these institutions. Um I'm laughing in these institutions. Um I'm laughing because I'm thinking of uh I was reading because I'm thinking of uh I was reading because I'm thinking of uh I was reading just a just a couple of years ago. I was just a just a couple of years ago. I was just a just a couple of years ago. I was reading an interview with Adam McCay, reading an interview with Adam McCay, reading an interview with Adam McCay, who is one of my very favorites. Uh uh who is one of my very favorites. Uh uh who is one of my very favorites. Uh uh he really is. And the interviewer asked he really is. And the interviewer asked he really is. And the interviewer asked him, "Who is him, "Who is him, "Who is uh you in Hollywood? Who's a Republican? uh you in Hollywood? Who's a Republican? uh you in Hollywood? Who's a Republican? Who's who's a Republican? Uh who's the Who's who's a Republican? Uh who's the Who's who's a Republican? Uh who's the Republican Adam McCay?" And Adam said, Republican Adam McCay?" And Adam said, Republican Adam McCay?" And Adam said, "Hm, I guess it's Aaron Sorcin."

"Hm, I guess it's Aaron Sorcin." "Hm, I guess it's Aaron Sorcin." You [laughter] out of your mind? Um uh You [laughter] out of your mind? Um uh You [laughter] out of your mind? Um uh uh I I am you're and uh it was because uh I I am you're and uh it was because uh I I am you're and uh it was because of uh of this uh romantic idea I have of uh of this uh romantic idea I have of uh of this uh romantic idea I have about our institutions about our institutions about our institutions which I do have. They're just they are which I do have. They're just they are which I do have. They're just they are user sensitive is is the thing. user sensitive is is the thing. user sensitive is is the thing. >> User sensitive meaning whoever's in >> User sensitive meaning whoever's in >> User sensitive meaning whoever's in charge of them will determine how useful charge of them will determine how useful charge of them will determine how useful they are or are not. they are or are not. they are or are not. >> Yeah. Um, I'm going to come back to >> Yeah. Um, I'm going to come back to >> Yeah. Um, I'm going to come back to this, but I want to just talk a little this, but I want to just talk a little this, but I want to just talk a little bit about your writing. I saw you say bit about your writing. I saw you say bit about your writing. I saw you say you once broke your nose writing. What you once broke your nose writing. What you once broke your nose writing. What happened? happened? happened? >> Here's what happened. Uh, I'm very >> Here's what happened. Uh, I'm very >> Here's what happened. Uh, I'm very physical. Uh, when I'm writing, uh, I'm physical. Uh, when I'm writing, uh, I'm physical. Uh, when I'm writing, uh, I'm I'm saying it all out loud. Um, uh, and, I'm saying it all out loud. Um, uh, and, I'm saying it all out loud. Um, uh, and, uh, this is on those occasions when it's uh, this is on those occasions when it's uh, this is on those occasions when it's going well. For me, most the the the going well. For me, most the the the going well. For me, most the the the it's I love writing. I I hate not it's I love writing. I I hate not it's I love writing. I I hate not writing. And that's what most of writing writing. And that's what most of writing writing. And that's what most of writing is for me. Most of writing is climbing is for me. Most of writing is climbing is for me. Most of writing is climbing the walls, pacing around. I don't have the walls, pacing around. I don't have the walls, pacing around. I don't have anything. Um I, you know, uh I always anything. Um I, you know, uh I always anything. Um I, you know, uh I always think that I'm never going to have think that I'm never going to have think that I'm never going to have another idea. I wrote 88 episodes of The another idea. I wrote 88 episodes of The another idea. I wrote 88 episodes of The West Wing 87 times. Um uh I said to the West Wing 87 times. Um uh I said to the West Wing 87 times. Um uh I said to the people around me, "Guys, uh that was it.

people around me, "Guys, uh that was it. people around me, "Guys, uh that was it. I I've just used every word I know in I I've just used every word I know in I I've just used every word I know in every order I can think of to put them. every order I can think of to put them. every order I can think of to put them. I I don't know any more stories. I'm I I don't know any more stories. I'm I I don't know any more stories. I'm we're in real trouble. Uh uh same thing we're in real trouble. Uh uh same thing we're in real trouble. Uh uh same thing with movies, same thing uh uh with with movies, same thing uh uh with with movies, same thing uh uh with plays. But on those days uh uh when it's plays. But on those days uh uh when it's plays. But on those days uh uh when it's going well, I'm up and down uh from the going well, I'm up and down uh from the going well, I'm up and down uh from the desk. I'm walking around. I'm uh desk. I'm walking around. I'm uh desk. I'm walking around. I'm uh sometimes I've even forgotten to type sometimes I've even forgotten to type sometimes I've even forgotten to type it. I'm I'm just talking. We're doing it. I'm I'm just talking. We're doing it. I'm I'm just talking. We're doing the scene and I realize I haven't the scene and I realize I haven't the scene and I realize I haven't written uh any of this down. written uh any of this down. written uh any of this down. during the newsroom uh uh one night and during the newsroom uh uh one night and during the newsroom uh uh one night and often it's kind of drifting off to sleep often it's kind of drifting off to sleep often it's kind of drifting off to sleep that uh that I'll get an idea and I that uh that I'll get an idea and I that uh that I'll get an idea and I don't keep a notepad next to the night don't keep a notepad next to the night don't keep a notepad next to the night table the way I should. Um I got an idea table the way I should. Um I got an idea table the way I should. Um I got an idea uh uh for just a funny moment uh in the uh uh for just a funny moment uh in the uh uh for just a funny moment uh in the show where Jeff Daniels character would show where Jeff Daniels character would show where Jeff Daniels character would lunge forward at some someone and he'd lunge forward at some someone and he'd lunge forward at some someone and he'd be held back uh uh by two staffers. Just be held back uh uh by two staffers. Just be held back uh uh by two staffers. Just one of those we've seen this. a comedy one of those we've seen this. a comedy one of those we've seen this. a comedy staple, you know, I'm going to get, you staple, you know, I'm going to get, you staple, you know, I'm going to get, you know, that kind of thing. Um, and I just know, that kind of thing. Um, and I just know, that kind of thing. Um, and I just wanted to write it down because when I wanted to write it down because when I wanted to write it down because when I get one of those drifting off uh ideas, get one of those drifting off uh ideas, get one of those drifting off uh ideas, I never remember it in the morning I never remember it in the morning I never remember it in the morning unless so I I have a little home office.

unless so I I have a little home office. unless so I I have a little home office. Uh uh I I ran in there. Um, I started to Uh uh I I ran in there. Um, I started to Uh uh I I ran in there. Um, I started to make a note and then I I I wrote the make a note and then I I I wrote the make a note and then I I I wrote the next line and I was writing and I was next line and I was writing and I was next line and I was writing and I was getting really happy uh about what I was getting really happy uh about what I was getting really happy uh about what I was doing and I managed to while I was doing and I managed to while I was doing and I managed to while I was acting it out wander into the bathroom acting it out wander into the bathroom acting it out wander into the bathroom uh uh that's in my office and I was uh uh that's in my office and I was uh uh that's in my office and I was looking in the mirror and I did the looking in the mirror and I did the looking in the mirror and I did the lunge that I wanted Jess Carrick do and lunge that I wanted Jess Carrick do and lunge that I wanted Jess Carrick do and there were no staffers there to hold me there were no staffers there to hold me there were no staffers there to hold me back so I went splat into the mirror. If back so I went splat into the mirror. If back so I went splat into the mirror. If it had been a Scorsesei movie, he'd have it had been a Scorsesei movie, he'd have it had been a Scorsesei movie, he'd have said, "All right, cut. Let's do it said, "All right, cut. Let's do it said, "All right, cut. Let's do it again. This time a little less blood." again. This time a little less blood." again. This time a little less blood." [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Um, you have this very recognizable >> Um, you have this very recognizable >> Um, you have this very recognizable style of dialogue, right? Super smart style of dialogue, right? Super smart style of dialogue, right? Super smart people exchanging super smart quips people exchanging super smart quips people exchanging super smart quips super fast. Obviously, AI is a big super fast. Obviously, AI is a big super fast. Obviously, AI is a big issue, uh, when we're talking about issue, uh, when we're talking about issue, uh, when we're talking about creativity and writing. Have you been creativity and writing. Have you been creativity and writing. Have you been tempted to go on a chatbot and ask them tempted to go on a chatbot and ask them tempted to go on a chatbot and ask them to do an Aaron Sorcin um uh to do an Aaron Sorcin um uh to do an Aaron Sorcin um uh scene just because I can imagine that scene just because I can imagine that scene just because I can imagine that that is a prompt that they would know that is a prompt that they would know that is a prompt that they would know exactly how to emulate. [sighs] exactly how to emulate. [sighs] exactly how to emulate. [sighs] >> It made me want to actually do it saying >> It made me want to actually do it saying >> It made me want to actually do it saying that. No, I mean emulate not improve on.

that. No, I mean emulate not improve on. that. No, I mean emulate not improve on. >> I imagine a robot would be able to do >> I imagine a robot would be able to do >> I imagine a robot would be able to do [laughter] what you [laughter] what you [laughter] what you >> No, no, emulate because you have a very >> No, no, emulate because you have a very >> No, no, emulate because you have a very distinctive style is what I meant. They distinctive style is what I meant. They distinctive style is what I meant. They would understand what the prompt meant. would understand what the prompt meant. would understand what the prompt meant. >> I appreciate that. No, I haven't done >> I appreciate that. No, I haven't done >> I appreciate that. No, I haven't done it. But would you like to hear my theory it. But would you like to hear my theory it. But would you like to hear my theory of uh uh would you like me to tell you of uh uh would you like me to tell you of uh uh would you like me to tell you whyound why I'm optimistic about AI? whyound why I'm optimistic about AI? whyound why I'm optimistic about AI? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. It's cuz I don't think it's going >> Okay. It's cuz I don't think it's going >> Okay. It's cuz I don't think it's going to work. to work. to work. >> Um I remember being at a dinner party a >> Um I remember being at a dinner party a >> Um I remember being at a dinner party a while back um and uh there was a while back um and uh there was a while back um and uh there was a painting on the wall, an abstract painting on the wall, an abstract painting on the wall, an abstract painting. Um and I kind of liked it and painting. Um and I kind of liked it and painting. Um and I kind of liked it and I was looking at I don't know anything I was looking at I don't know anything I was looking at I don't know anything about art. Uh, if the word abstract, about art. Uh, if the word abstract, about art. Uh, if the word abstract, that's I've exhausted my vocabulary, that's I've exhausted my vocabulary, that's I've exhausted my vocabulary, >> but I I liked it. I was I don't know. I >> but I I liked it. I was I don't know. I >> but I I liked it. I was I don't know. I Whatever you're supposed to get from Whatever you're supposed to get from Whatever you're supposed to get from art, it was happening. Uh, I liked it. art, it was happening. Uh, I liked it. art, it was happening. Uh, I liked it. And the host of the party came up to me And the host of the party came up to me And the host of the party came up to me and he said, "A machine painted that." and he said, "A machine painted that." and he said, "A machine painted that." [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> And I was impressed with the technology, >> And I was impressed with the technology, >> And I was impressed with the technology, but whatever it was I was feeling about but whatever it was I was feeling about but whatever it was I was feeling about that painting was gone. Um, if you're that painting was gone. Um, if you're that painting was gone. Um, if you're someone who plays video games, if you someone who plays video games, if you someone who plays video games, if you play Call of Duty, those people you're play Call of Duty, those people you're play Call of Duty, those people you're shooting in Call of Duty, you don't have shooting in Call of Duty, you don't have shooting in Call of Duty, you don't have an emotional connection to them, and an emotional connection to them, and an emotional connection to them, and that would be your experience watching that would be your experience watching that would be your experience watching AI Schindler's List. I think we're going AI Schindler's List. I think we're going AI Schindler's List. I think we're going to find out uh that to find out uh that to find out uh that when you go into a movie theater, you when you go into a movie theater, you when you go into a movie theater, you may not know the name of the person who may not know the name of the person who may not know the name of the person who directed it, the name of the person who directed it, the name of the person who directed it, the name of the person who wrote it, uh the name of the people who wrote it, uh the name of the people who wrote it, uh the name of the people who are in it. I think we're going to find

are in it. I think we're going to find are in it. I think we're going to find out that it matters to you that it was a out that it matters to you that it was a out that it matters to you that it was a person. person. person. >> But everywhere people are using this >> But everywhere people are using this >> But everywhere people are using this technology um in ways that uh shortcut technology um in ways that uh shortcut technology um in ways that uh shortcut the difficult process that you do to try the difficult process that you do to try the difficult process that you do to try and come up with an idea. and come up with an idea. and come up with an idea. >> Uh I believe you and the fact of the >> Uh I believe you and the fact of the >> Uh I believe you and the fact of the matter is especially given the uh you matter is especially given the uh you matter is especially given the uh you know how difficult it is for me to to know how difficult it is for me to to know how difficult it is for me to to get an idea to get started. Uh the fact get an idea to get started. Uh the fact get an idea to get started. Uh the fact of the matter is that I think if I I of the matter is that I think if I I of the matter is that I think if I I went to one of these sites and said, went to one of these sites and said, went to one of these sites and said, "Hey, uh do me a favor. Write an opening "Hey, uh do me a favor. Write an opening "Hey, uh do me a favor. Write an opening scene for a story about uh and it was scene for a story about uh and it was scene for a story about uh and it was able to able to able to to do it or even come close in a way to do it or even come close in a way to do it or even come close in a way where all I had to do is kind of a where all I had to do is kind of a where all I had to do is kind of a little dialogue polish on this." And um little dialogue polish on this." And um little dialogue polish on this." And um I think I that would be all I'd ever do. I think I that would be all I'd ever do. I think I that would be all I'd ever do. I don't think I'd ever try to have an I don't think I'd ever try to have an I don't think I'd ever try to have an idea again. idea again. idea again. >> That's the danger. >> That's the danger. >> That's the danger. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. Yeah. So, why are you optimistic? Yeah. So, why are you optimistic? Yeah. So, why are you optimistic? >> First of all, it's how I earn a living.

>> First of all, it's how I earn a living. >> First of all, it's how I earn a living. Okay. [laughter] [gasps] [gasps] >> Lulu, stop trying to argue me out of a >> Lulu, stop trying to argue me out of a >> Lulu, stop trying to argue me out of a job. All right. job. All right. job. All right. >> But I I I just honestly believe at first >> But I I I just honestly believe at first >> But I I I just honestly believe at first I thought, okay, well, maybe the future I thought, okay, well, maybe the future I thought, okay, well, maybe the future is going to be that nonI films, you is going to be that nonI films, you is going to be that nonI films, you you'll just find them in artous. you you'll just find them in artous. you you'll just find them in artous. you know, every once in a while there'll be, know, every once in a while there'll be, know, every once in a while there'll be, you know, you'll hear about a town you know, you'll hear about a town you know, you'll hear about a town that's got a great that's got a great that's got a great >> non AI theater uh in it, but >> non AI theater uh in it, but >> non AI theater uh in it, but >> I don't believe it. I I I I want a >> I don't believe it. I I I I want a >> I don't believe it. I I I I want a Scorsesei movie, you know. I want a Scorsesei movie, you know. I want a Scorsesei movie, you know. I want a Spielberg movie. I want an Adam Mccay Spielberg movie. I want an Adam Mccay Spielberg movie. I want an Adam Mccay movie. Um uh I want a Greta Gerwick movie. Um uh I want a Greta Gerwick movie. Um uh I want a Greta Gerwick movie. Uh movie. Uh movie. Uh and uh I I'm I'm not I I I'm going to and uh I I'm I'm not I I I'm going to and uh I I'm I'm not I I I'm going to feel about an AI movie the same way I feel about an AI movie the same way I feel about an AI movie the same way I felt about that AI painting. felt about that AI painting. felt about that AI painting. >> All right. Um, I want to talk about how >> All right. Um, I want to talk about how >> All right. Um, I want to talk about how your writing evolved. Um, in your 20s your writing evolved. Um, in your 20s your writing evolved. Um, in your 20s and 30s, you would take drugs and stay and 30s, you would take drugs and stay and 30s, you would take drugs and stay up all night writing. You're sober now. up all night writing. You're sober now. up all night writing. You're sober now. It did make me wonder what the It did make me wonder what the It did make me wonder what the difference is between difference is between difference is between writing high and writing sober. Um, did writing high and writing sober. Um, did writing high and writing sober. Um, did you is there did you find that that you is there did you find that that you is there did you find that that there's a certain level of creativity there's a certain level of creativity there's a certain level of creativity that is more accessible to you sober? Um that is more accessible to you sober? Um that is more accessible to you sober? Um contrary to the myth that you know a lot contrary to the myth that you know a lot contrary to the myth that you know a lot of people have um that are addicts that of people have um that are addicts that of people have um that are addicts that the only way that they can get the the only way that they can get the the only way that they can get the creative juices flowing is through you creative juices flowing is through you creative juices flowing is through you know chemical intervention.

know chemical intervention. know chemical intervention. >> Well that's what I thought. Um it was >> Well that's what I thought. Um it was >> Well that's what I thought. Um it was the creative juices and and also the the creative juices and and also the the creative juices and and also the energy. I mean you know there was a time energy. I mean you know there was a time energy. I mean you know there was a time when uh I would not begin writing until when uh I would not begin writing until when uh I would not begin writing until after the sun went down and my dealer after the sun went down and my dealer after the sun went down and my dealer came over. Um, came over. Um, came over. Um, and uh, and and uh, and and uh, and you know, I was using coke. I I I was a you know, I was using coke. I I I was a you know, I was using coke. I I I was a late bloomer when it came uh uh to late bloomer when it came uh uh to late bloomer when it came uh uh to drugs. I went through high school, drugs. I went through high school, drugs. I went through high school, college, um, even my early 20s without college, um, even my early 20s without college, um, even my early 20s without ever having even tried marijuana. And it ever having even tried marijuana. And it ever having even tried marijuana. And it all changed in one night. all changed in one night. all changed in one night. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> what was the night? >> what was the night? >> what was the night? >> It was just a particularly night. I was >> It was just a particularly night. I was >> It was just a particularly night. I was living uh, I I was 25. Uh I was sharing living uh, I I was 25. Uh I was sharing living uh, I I was 25. Uh I was sharing an apartment with a couple of friends in an apartment with a couple of friends in an apartment with a couple of friends in Hell's Kitchen uh in New York. Um and Hell's Kitchen uh in New York. Um and Hell's Kitchen uh in New York. Um and one of my roommates had uh got a job at one of my roommates had uh got a job at one of my roommates had uh got a job at a national tour or something sublet a national tour or something sublet a national tour or something sublet their third of the apartment out to their third of the apartment out to their third of the apartment out to someone else. Uh and someone else. Uh and someone else. Uh and I was probably complaining about, you I was probably complaining about, you I was probably complaining about, you know, no, I can't write the I was trying know, no, I can't write the I was trying know, no, I can't write the I was trying to write a few good men.

to write a few good men. to write a few good men. >> Um and I was probably complaining about >> Um and I was probably complaining about >> Um and I was probably complaining about having some trouble. Uh, and she said, having some trouble. Uh, and she said, having some trouble. Uh, and she said, "Hey, smoke this. Uh, relax." And I had "Hey, smoke this. Uh, relax." And I had "Hey, smoke this. Uh, relax." And I had been offered weed a million times before been offered weed a million times before been offered weed a million times before in my life. And it said no every time. in my life. And it said no every time. in my life. And it said no every time. For some reason, this particular time uh For some reason, this particular time uh For some reason, this particular time uh uh I said yes. And about a half hour uh I said yes. And about a half hour uh I said yes. And about a half hour later, uh she laid out some lines uh on later, uh she laid out some lines uh on later, uh she laid out some lines uh on the table and I said yes. And in my the table and I said yes. And in my the table and I said yes. And in my mind, mind, mind, I did the coke and wrote a few good men, I did the coke and wrote a few good men, I did the coke and wrote a few good men, you know, the next day. that that that's you know, the next day. that that that's you know, the next day. that that that's how my mind thought of it. Um, and I how my mind thought of it. Um, and I how my mind thought of it. Um, and I thought, you know, I know this is bad uh thought, you know, I know this is bad uh thought, you know, I know this is bad uh uh for me, but if it's the difference uh for me, but if it's the difference uh for me, but if it's the difference between being able to do this and not between being able to do this and not between being able to do this and not being able to do this, I'm sorry. I'm being able to do this, I'm sorry. I'm being able to do this, I'm sorry. I'm going to have to uh do this uh and going to have to uh do this uh and going to have to uh do this uh and and that's how [clears throat] I thought and that's how [clears throat] I thought and that's how [clears throat] I thought for a long time. And um uh I lost a for a long time. And um uh I lost a for a long time. And um uh I lost a decade of my life uh uh to drugs. And decade of my life uh uh to drugs. And decade of my life uh uh to drugs. And >> it must have been very frightening to >> it must have been very frightening to >> it must have been very frightening to get sober get sober get sober with that connection being true that with that connection being true that with that connection being true that your livelihood and your addiction were your livelihood and your addiction were your livelihood and your addiction were so closely aligned.

so closely aligned. so closely aligned. >> It was I got a phone call uh out of the >> It was I got a phone call uh out of the >> It was I got a phone call uh out of the blue from someone I'd never met or blue from someone I'd never met or blue from someone I'd never met or spoken to, Carrie Fischer. Um who uh I spoken to, Carrie Fischer. Um who uh I spoken to, Carrie Fischer. Um who uh I had become uh in my 30s now. Um and I'd had become uh in my 30s now. Um and I'd had become uh in my 30s now. Um and I'd become friends with Warren Batty. Um he become friends with Warren Batty. Um he become friends with Warren Batty. Um he uh he kind of he has a gravitational uh he kind of he has a gravitational uh he kind of he has a gravitational pull and people kind of come into his pull and people kind of come into his pull and people kind of come into his orbit and I I began to be one of the orbit and I I began to be one of the orbit and I I began to be one of the people in his orbit. Um I got a phone people in his orbit. Um I got a phone people in his orbit. Um I got a phone call from Carrie Fischer cuz Warren told call from Carrie Fischer cuz Warren told call from Carrie Fischer cuz Warren told him to call me [snorts] and she said I him to call me [snorts] and she said I him to call me [snorts] and she said I it was the first thing she said I know it was the first thing she said I know it was the first thing she said I know you think you can't write without it and you think you can't write without it and you think you can't write without it and I'm telling you you're going to write I'm telling you you're going to write I'm telling you you're going to write better than you've ever written before. better than you've ever written before. better than you've ever written before. Um so uh I went to rehab. Um, and when I Um so uh I went to rehab. Um, and when I Um so uh I went to rehab. Um, and when I got out, my big fear, when you get out got out, my big fear, when you get out got out, my big fear, when you get out of rehab, you you're you're terrified of of rehab, you you're you're terrified of of rehab, you you're you're terrified of relapsing. relapsing. relapsing. >> You're always terrified of relapsing. >> You're always terrified of relapsing. >> You're always terrified of relapsing. Um, u, and my big fear was Um, u, and my big fear was Um, u, and my big fear was uh, going through the having an idea, uh, going through the having an idea, uh, going through the having an idea, trying to have an idea phase again and trying to have an idea phase again and trying to have an idea phase again and that I was going to get frustrated and that I was going to get frustrated and that I was going to get frustrated and that I know the secret. I I I know how that I know the secret. I I I know how that I know the secret. I I I know how to get past this. I know the phone to get past this. I know the phone to get past this. I know the phone number uh uh to use. Um, so what I did number uh uh to use. Um, so what I did number uh uh to use. Um, so what I did at the beginning was I just took uh at the beginning was I just took uh at the beginning was I just took uh uncredited dialogue polish uh read like uncredited dialogue polish uh read like uncredited dialogue polish uh read like two weeks on a Jerry Brookheimimer two weeks on a Jerry Brookheimimer two weeks on a Jerry Brookheimimer movie. Yeah. Um that kind of thing just movie. Yeah. Um that kind of thing just movie. Yeah. Um that kind of thing just to to to kind of get back uh in the groove of it

kind of get back uh in the groove of it kind of get back uh in the groove of it and uh I I didn't have to come up with and uh I I didn't have to come up with and uh I I didn't have to come up with an idea. It was a dialogue polish uh and an idea. It was a dialogue polish uh and an idea. It was a dialogue polish uh and and nobody was depending on me and I got and nobody was depending on me and I got and nobody was depending on me and I got into it a little bit that way. Um, and into it a little bit that way. Um, and into it a little bit that way. Um, and uh, then took it from there. uh, then took it from there. uh, then took it from there. >> What was the first time that you >> What was the first time that you >> What was the first time that you thought, "Okay, this is good. I'm thought, "Okay, this is good. I'm thought, "Okay, this is good. I'm writing it and I'm okay writing it writing it and I'm okay writing it writing it and I'm okay writing it sober." [snorts] [snorts] >> Uh, >> Uh, >> Uh, um, the Westwing pilot. um, the Westwing pilot. um, the Westwing pilot. >> The Westwing pilot. >> The Westwing pilot. >> The Westwing pilot. >> Yeah. Um uh not even the whole pilot, >> Yeah. Um uh not even the whole pilot, >> Yeah. Um uh not even the whole pilot, just uh there were a couple of scenes uh just uh there were a couple of scenes uh just uh there were a couple of scenes uh in there uh in particular the last see in there uh in particular the last see in there uh in particular the last see like the last five minutes or so 5 10 like the last five minutes or so 5 10 like the last five minutes or so 5 10 minutes uh of the West Wing. Um you know minutes uh of the West Wing. Um you know minutes uh of the West Wing. Um you know I just thought I just thought I just thought I'm not frightening Eugene O'Neal but uh I'm not frightening Eugene O'Neal but uh I'm not frightening Eugene O'Neal but uh this is uh I I can do this sober. this is uh I I can do this sober. this is uh I I can do this sober. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> Okay. Um, >> Okay. Um, >> Okay. Um, I want to circle back. We're going to I want to circle back. We're going to I want to circle back. We're going to talk again, but um, before we end talk again, but um, before we end talk again, but um, before we end >> Oh, no. No, go ahead. I I was hoping >> Oh, no. No, go ahead. I I was hoping >> Oh, no. No, go ahead. I I was hoping we're going to talk more about my drug we're going to talk more about my drug we're going to talk more about my drug use. [laughter] use. [laughter] use. [laughter] [gasps] [gasps] [gasps] >> By all means, if there's something more >> By all means, if there's something more >> By all means, if there's something more you want to add, um, let me before I you want to add, um, let me before I you want to add, um, let me before I mean, the reason the reason I ask about mean, the reason the reason I ask about mean, the reason the reason I ask about the drug use is the drug use is the drug use is >> I understand >> I understand >> I understand >> it, you know, it's informs a life, >> it, you know, it's informs a life, >> it, you know, it's informs a life, right? It informs the way you think right? It informs the way you think right? It informs the way you think about things.

about things. about things. >> Does I thought this was where you were >> Does I thought this was where you were >> Does I thought this was where you were going actually, going actually, going actually, >> which is that I am someone >> which is that I am someone >> which is that I am someone >> uh yes, I am a suburban kid who's uh you >> uh yes, I am a suburban kid who's uh you >> uh yes, I am a suburban kid who's uh you know had uh I've been very lucky uh in know had uh I've been very lucky uh in know had uh I've been very lucky uh in my life. Uh very lucky, my life. Uh very lucky, my life. Uh very lucky, >> but there was a lot of darkness. Yeah. >> but there was a lot of darkness. Yeah. >> but there was a lot of darkness. Yeah. >> Um uh terrible darkness. My drug use >> Um uh terrible darkness. My drug use >> Um uh terrible darkness. My drug use wasn't partying. Uh I I never did it wasn't partying. Uh I I never did it wasn't partying. Uh I I never did it with uh anyone else. something I did with uh anyone else. something I did with uh anyone else. something I did alone isolating alone isolating alone isolating >> very very dark especially [snorts] >> very very dark especially [snorts] >> very very dark especially [snorts] remember I I went from snorting coke to remember I I went from snorting coke to remember I I went from snorting coke to smoking coke freebasing um and uh that smoking coke freebasing um and uh that smoking coke freebasing um and uh that is that's a rough place to go I thought is that's a rough place to go I thought is that's a rough place to go I thought you were going to say I don't understand you were going to say I don't understand you were going to say I don't understand how that squares with the optimism and how that squares with the optimism and how that squares with the optimism and romanticism in your writing why aren't romanticism in your writing why aren't romanticism in your writing why aren't you writing more uh you know about the you writing more uh you know about the you writing more uh you know about the darkness darkness darkness >> it's a great question from Aaron Sorcin >> it's a great question from Aaron Sorcin >> it's a great question from Aaron Sorcin about himself let me ask you the about himself let me ask you the about himself let me ask you the question. I'm glad you're writing. I'm question. I'm glad you're writing. I'm question. I'm glad you're writing. I'm glad I've got one of the greatest glad I've got one of the greatest glad I've got one of the greatest writers asking this writers asking this writers asking this >> bring it up. I don't know. I don't know.

>> bring it up. I don't know. I don't know. >> bring it up. I don't know. I don't know. >> I mean, you've had darkness. Why? >> I mean, you've had darkness. Why? >> I mean, you've had darkness. Why? >> Because there have been plenty of times >> Because there have been plenty of times >> Because there have been plenty of times going going going >> I I Why aren't I writing uh about that? >> I I Why aren't I writing uh about that? >> I I Why aren't I writing uh about that? It's another place to go uh with the It's another place to go uh with the It's another place to go uh with the writing. Here's what I think it is. Uh, writing. Here's what I think it is. Uh, writing. Here's what I think it is. Uh, and honestly I this is the most thought and honestly I this is the most thought and honestly I this is the most thought I I've I I've I I've I I've always been aware of it but right I I've always been aware of it but right I I've always been aware of it but right now is the is the most thought I've ever now is the is the most thought I've ever now is the is the most thought I've ever given it. So here goes. given it. So here goes. given it. So here goes. I think the problem is that I I think the problem is that I I think the problem is that I if I write if I write if I write more [snorts] autobiographically, more [snorts] autobiographically, more [snorts] autobiographically, uh, you're not going to like that uh, you're not going to like that uh, you're not going to like that character and I want you to like me from character and I want you to like me from character and I want you to like me from my writing. How's that for a confession? my writing. How's that for a confession? my writing. How's that for a confession? >> It's a good one. >> It's a good one. >> It's a good one. >> Damn it. I did not mean to. [laughter] There's someone off camera letting me There's someone off camera letting me know just how wrong that was. [laughter] know just how wrong that was. [laughter] know just how wrong that was. [laughter] Um, Um, Um, >> I think that's what it is. Um, >> I think that's what it is. Um, >> I think that's what it is. Um, >> I don't think that's a bad impulse. I >> I don't think that's a bad impulse. I >> I don't think that's a bad impulse. I mean, I don't know why that's wrong.

mean, I don't know why that's wrong. mean, I don't know why that's wrong. It's It's It's >> It's not. It's not wrong. Um, >> It's not. It's not wrong. Um, >> It's not. It's not wrong. Um, it might be a little bit wrong for it might be a little bit wrong for it might be a little bit wrong for trying to sell a movie. Uh, but uh um trying to sell a movie. Uh, but uh um trying to sell a movie. Uh, but uh um >> you also want people to like the >> you also want people to like the >> you also want people to like the characters. I mean, you are the I mean, characters. I mean, you are the I mean, characters. I mean, you are the I mean, what you're saying, what we've what what you're saying, what we've what what you're saying, what we've what we've established here is in some way we've established here is in some way we've established here is in some way you are the characters and you want you are the characters and you want you are the characters and you want people to like you and the characters. people to like you and the characters. people to like you and the characters. >> I uh Yeah. >> I uh Yeah. >> I uh Yeah. >> Through the characters. For instance, um >> Through the characters. For instance, um >> Through the characters. For instance, um my second movie, my first movie was A my second movie, my first movie was A my second movie, my first movie was A Few Good Men based on my first play, uh Few Good Men based on my first play, uh Few Good Men based on my first play, uh A Few Good Men. Um uh but my second A Few Good Men. Um uh but my second A Few Good Men. Um uh but my second movie is one I'm not proud of, uh at movie is one I'm not proud of, uh at movie is one I'm not proud of, uh at all. Everything went wrong. Um uh but all. Everything went wrong. Um uh but all. Everything went wrong. Um uh but I'm just I want to tell a quick story I'm just I want to tell a quick story I'm just I want to tell a quick story from it because I I know you want to from it because I I know you want to from it because I I know you want to wrap up. wrap up. wrap up. >> No, I don't. You can. We can stay here >> No, I don't. You can. We can stay here >> No, I don't. You can. We can stay here as long as you want to. as long as you want to. as long as you want to. >> This movie starred Alec Baldwin, Nicole >> This movie starred Alec Baldwin, Nicole >> This movie starred Alec Baldwin, Nicole Kitman. Mh. Kitman. Mh. Kitman. Mh. >> Um, uh, and we were shooting it in >> Um, uh, and we were shooting it in >> Um, uh, and we were shooting it in Northampton, Massachusetts on on on the Northampton, Massachusetts on on on the Northampton, Massachusetts on on on the campus of Smith. Uh, and it was a campus of Smith. Uh, and it was a campus of Smith. Uh, and it was a R-rated thriller. R-rated thriller. R-rated thriller. Um, and, uh, the director, Harold Um, and, uh, the director, Harold Um, and, uh, the director, Harold Becker, uh, we we were in rehearsal. Becker, uh, we we were in rehearsal. Becker, uh, we we were in rehearsal. We're about a week away from shooting.

We're about a week away from shooting. We're about a week away from shooting. Director, Harold Becker, said, "You Director, Harold Becker, said, "You Director, Harold Becker, said, "You know, we need a sex scene with Alec and know, we need a sex scene with Alec and know, we need a sex scene with Alec and Nicole. It's ridiculous that there's no Nicole. It's ridiculous that there's no Nicole. It's ridiculous that there's no sex scene with Alec and Nicole. So, I sex scene with Alec and Nicole. So, I sex scene with Alec and Nicole. So, I want you to go to your hotel room and want you to go to your hotel room and want you to go to your hotel room and >> Two Hot People. Yeah. You want to see >> Two Hot People. Yeah. You want to see >> Two Hot People. Yeah. You want to see them together?" them together?" them together?" >> Yeah. And it's our thriller. And Yes. >> Yeah. And it's our thriller. And Yes. >> Yeah. And it's our thriller. And Yes. Exactly. Uh, so I went back to my hotel Exactly. Uh, so I went back to my hotel Exactly. Uh, so I went back to my hotel room and I wrote four pages of kind of room and I wrote four pages of kind of room and I wrote four pages of kind of sexy banter. Uh, ending with they fall sexy banter. Uh, ending with they fall sexy banter. Uh, ending with they fall onto the bed as we cut to the quad the onto the bed as we cut to the quad the onto the bed as we cut to the quad the next morning. Um, and Harold read this next morning. Um, and Harold read this next morning. Um, and Harold read this said, "No, [laughter] no, no. I mean, said, "No, [laughter] no, no. I mean, said, "No, [laughter] no, no. I mean, [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] uh, a sex scene." Uh, and he saw, and I uh, a sex scene." Uh, and he saw, and I uh, a sex scene." Uh, and he saw, and I was young, this early in my career, and was young, this early in my career, and was young, this early in my career, and he saw kind of the panic in my face. Uh, he saw kind of the panic in my face. Uh, he saw kind of the panic in my face. Uh, and he said, "It's no big deal. Just go and he said, "It's no big deal. Just go and he said, "It's no big deal. Just go to your hotel room and, you know, write to your hotel room and, you know, write to your hotel room and, you know, write down what you'd like to see Nicole do. down what you'd like to see Nicole do. down what you'd like to see Nicole do. [laughter] Anyway, you want me to write [laughter] Anyway, you want me to write [laughter] Anyway, you want me to write down what I'd like to see Nicole Kidman down what I'd like to see Nicole Kidman down what I'd like to see Nicole Kidman do and then distribute it to the cast do and then distribute it to the cast do and then distribute it to the cast and crew, including Nicole Kidman, um, and crew, including Nicole Kidman, um, and crew, including Nicole Kidman, um, and her husband, Tom Cruz, who I just and her husband, Tom Cruz, who I just and her husband, Tom Cruz, who I just did a movie with. Uh, I I was unable to did a movie with. Uh, I I was unable to did a movie with. Uh, I I was unable to do it. I was I was simply unable to do do it. I was I was simply unable to do do it. I was I was simply unable to do it. As a result, Alec and Nicole and the it. As a result, Alec and Nicole and the it. As a result, Alec and Nicole and the director went into the director's director went into the director's director went into the director's trailer and they simply mapped out, you trailer and they simply mapped out, you trailer and they simply mapped out, you know, what they were going to do. It's know, what they were going to do. It's know, what they were going to do. It's not sexy. It's it's not erotic. It's not sexy. It's it's not erotic. It's not sexy. It's it's not erotic. It's just crude. It's bad writing. Okay. Um, just crude. It's bad writing. Okay. Um, just crude. It's bad writing. Okay. Um, and I hate and I hate and I hate that people seeing that movie,

that people seeing that movie, that people seeing that movie, unfortunately, not many of them did, but unfortunately, not many of them did, but unfortunately, not many of them did, but I hate that people think, not that I'm I hate that people think, not that I'm I hate that people think, not that I'm that bad a writer, uh, I I don't like that bad a writer, uh, I I don't like that bad a writer, uh, I I don't like that either, but I hate that they think that either, but I hate that they think that either, but I hate that they think that that's what I think is charming or that that's what I think is charming or that that's what I think is charming or sexy, uh, or come on that that this is sexy, uh, or come on that that this is sexy, uh, or come on that that this is is the, as you can tell, the best way I is the, as you can tell, the best way I is the, as you can tell, the best way I know how to communicate. uh uh with know how to communicate. uh uh with know how to communicate. uh uh with people and it and that that's not me. people and it and that that's not me. people and it and that that's not me. And that's what I mean by I'm I'm And that's what I mean by I'm I'm And that's what I mean by I'm I'm worried that if I if I did the other worried that if I if I did the other worried that if I if I did the other thing thing thing now now I'm going to be up all night now now I'm going to be up all night now now I'm going to be up all night about it. See what you did. about it. See what you did. about it. See what you did. >> Up all night about >> Up all night about >> Up all night about >> this like uh uh the idea of why haven't >> this like uh uh the idea of why haven't >> this like uh uh the idea of why haven't I written what I know, you know? I written what I know, you know? I written what I know, you know? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I want to hear what you come up with on I want to hear what you come up with on I want to hear what you come up with on the other side of that. the other side of that. the other side of that. >> I'll let you know. >> I'll let you know. >> I'll let you know. >> Thank you so much. We'll end it here, >> Thank you so much. We'll end it here, >> Thank you so much. We'll end it here, but we will uh speak again. but we will uh speak again. but we will uh speak again. >> Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. >> Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. >> Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. >> Yeah, me too. >> Yeah, me too. >> Yeah, me too. [music] On the interview, we talked to [music] On the interview, we talked to [music] On the interview, we talked to our guest twice. So, a few weeks later, our guest twice. So, a few weeks later, our guest twice. So, a few weeks later, Aaron Sorcin and I spoke again [music] Aaron Sorcin and I spoke again [music] Aaron Sorcin and I spoke again [music] about whether or not his abiding faith about whether or not his abiding faith about whether or not his abiding faith in America's institutions is dead wrong.

in America's institutions is dead wrong. in America's institutions is dead wrong. >> Hey, Lulu. >> Hey, Lulu. >> Hey, Lulu. >> How are you? You're in New York. >> How are you? You're in New York. >> How are you? You're in New York. >> I am. I am. And I'm well, thanks. How >> I am. I am. And I'm well, thanks. How >> I am. I am. And I'm well, thanks. How are you? are you? are you? >> I'm good. I'm very well. I really >> I'm good. I'm very well. I really >> I'm good. I'm very well. I really enjoyed our conversation last time. I've enjoyed our conversation last time. I've enjoyed our conversation last time. I've been thinking a lot about it, actually. been thinking a lot about it, actually. been thinking a lot about it, actually. And when we last spoke, uh, we ended our And when we last spoke, uh, we ended our And when we last spoke, uh, we ended our talk with you sort of acknowledging that talk with you sort of acknowledging that talk with you sort of acknowledging that you write optimistic endings and, um, you write optimistic endings and, um, you write optimistic endings and, um, you don't delve into your own darkness you don't delve into your own darkness you don't delve into your own darkness because you said you wanted to be liked. because you said you wanted to be liked. because you said you wanted to be liked. And I was wondering if you'd sort of And I was wondering if you'd sort of And I was wondering if you'd sort of reflected on that. I have. Um, I mean, reflected on that. I have. Um, I mean, reflected on that. I have. Um, I mean, saying I wanted to be liked, that may be saying I wanted to be liked, that may be saying I wanted to be liked, that may be uh, uh, simplifying it a little bit. I uh, uh, simplifying it a little bit. I uh, uh, simplifying it a little bit. I think, yeah, I don't think it's think, yeah, I don't think it's think, yeah, I don't think it's simplifying it too much actually. I I I simplifying it too much actually. I I I simplifying it too much actually. I I I think what I said uh was that maybe uh think what I said uh was that maybe uh think what I said uh was that maybe uh the reason you know that I did have uh the reason you know that I did have uh the reason you know that I did have uh there was a dark period in my life and there was a dark period in my life and there was a dark period in my life and that that the reason uh I don't write that that the reason uh I don't write that that the reason uh I don't write about that uh is about that uh is about that uh is that I think people won't like me you uh that I think people won't like me you uh that I think people won't like me you uh you're right but it's also possible that you're right but it's also possible that you're right but it's also possible that the reason I don't uh write about that the reason I don't uh write about that the reason I don't uh write about that is that my writing style doesn't really is that my writing style doesn't really is that my writing style doesn't really suit that maybe That's the reason. And suit that maybe That's the reason. And suit that maybe That's the reason. And listen, another reason also might be listen, another reason also might be listen, another reason also might be I don't have a lot of ideas. Uh I don't I don't have a lot of ideas. Uh I don't I don't have a lot of ideas. Uh I don't have so many ideas that uh I can say, have so many ideas that uh I can say, have so many ideas that uh I can say, well, you know, that's a good idea, but well, you know, that's a good idea, but well, you know, that's a good idea, but I'm not going to do that because I'm not going to do that because I'm not going to do that because >> I'm sorry I'm laughing, but it's it's >> I'm sorry I'm laughing, but it's it's >> I'm sorry I'm laughing, but it's it's funny to hear you say that because funny to hear you say that because funny to hear you say that because you're known as, you're known as, you're known as, >> you know, someone who's quite prolific.

>> you know, someone who's quite prolific. >> you know, someone who's quite prolific. But go on. [laughter] But go on. [laughter] But go on. [laughter] >> That's uh that's miraculous that that >> That's uh that's miraculous that that >> That's uh that's miraculous that that that's happened. Listen, I'm uh uh I'm that's happened. Listen, I'm uh uh I'm that's happened. Listen, I'm uh uh I'm doing press now uh for the social doing press now uh for the social doing press now uh for the social reckoning. Uh but the movie's going to reckoning. Uh but the movie's going to reckoning. Uh but the movie's going to open on October 9th, and on October open on October 9th, and on October open on October 9th, and on October 10th, I'm going to have to reckon with 10th, I'm going to have to reckon with 10th, I'm going to have to reckon with the fact that I don't have an idea for the fact that I don't have an idea for the fact that I don't have an idea for the next thing that I'm going to do, and the next thing that I'm going to do, and the next thing that I'm going to do, and I'm going to be climbing the walls. It's I'm going to be climbing the walls. It's I'm going to be climbing the walls. It's going to feel terrible. It's going to go going to feel terrible. It's going to go going to feel terrible. It's going to go on for a while. Uh and when I don't have on for a while. Uh and when I don't have on for a while. Uh and when I don't have an idea, it's impossible for me to an idea, it's impossible for me to an idea, it's impossible for me to imagine that I'm ever going to have an imagine that I'm ever going to have an imagine that I'm ever going to have an idea. So if on October 10th uh I had an idea. So if on October 10th uh I had an idea. So if on October 10th uh I had an idea uh that involved a protagonist idea uh that involved a protagonist idea uh that involved a protagonist uh who was going through the same kind uh who was going through the same kind uh who was going through the same kind of dark period that I went through. I of dark period that I went through. I of dark period that I went through. I I'm not sure I would reject it for the I'm not sure I would reject it for the I'm not sure I would reject it for the reasons that uh uh that I was saying. Uh reasons that uh uh that I was saying. Uh reasons that uh uh that I was saying. Uh I might say, "Hey, uh it's an idea. I I might say, "Hey, uh it's an idea. I I might say, "Hey, uh it's an idea. I think I think I have a chance to to think I think I have a chance to to think I think I have a chance to to write something good." Uh uh in other write something good." Uh uh in other write something good." Uh uh in other words, what I'm saying, it's possible words, what I'm saying, it's possible words, what I'm saying, it's possible that I haven't written about it because that I haven't written about it because that I haven't written about it because I don't have an idea for it.

I don't have an idea for it. I don't have an idea for it. >> All right. I want to turn obviously to >> All right. I want to turn obviously to >> All right. I want to turn obviously to something that just happened um at the something that just happened um at the something that just happened um at the end of August, which is Meta agreed to a end of August, which is Meta agreed to a end of August, which is Meta agreed to a major settlement where it has promised major settlement where it has promised major settlement where it has promised to make changes to its apps and how they to make changes to its apps and how they to make changes to its apps and how they are used by teenagers. Yeah. are used by teenagers. Yeah. are used by teenagers. Yeah. >> And of course, this comes out of one of >> And of course, this comes out of one of >> And of course, this comes out of one of the things that Francis Hogan brought to the things that Francis Hogan brought to the things that Francis Hogan brought to light light light >> um which is how Meta's apps negatively >> um which is how Meta's apps negatively >> um which is how Meta's apps negatively impact young people. impact young people. impact young people. >> So, what's your reaction? What did you >> So, what's your reaction? What did you >> So, what's your reaction? What did you think when you saw that? think when you saw that? think when you saw that? >> Well, it's great news. Uh it it's >> Well, it's great news. Uh it it's >> Well, it's great news. Uh it it's terrific. Uh to a couple of things. Uh terrific. Uh to a couple of things. Uh terrific. Uh to a couple of things. Uh uh yes, that that settlement the uh yes, that that settlement the uh yes, that that settlement the lawsuits brought uh Francis had uh lawsuits brought uh Francis had uh lawsuits brought uh Francis had uh provided some of the information that provided some of the information that provided some of the information that served as the foundation uh for those served as the foundation uh for those served as the foundation uh for those lawsuits. This settlement was about the lawsuits. This settlement was about the lawsuits. This settlement was about the indictive nature of of uh Facebook uh indictive nature of of uh Facebook uh indictive nature of of uh Facebook uh and that Mark and senior people there and that Mark and senior people there and that Mark and senior people there that they had research. They knew it was that they had research. They knew it was that they had research. They knew it was uh addictive just like the tobacco uh addictive just like the tobacco uh addictive just like the tobacco companies and and nicotine. What the companies and and nicotine. What the companies and and nicotine. What the social reckoning is about uh is social reckoning is about uh is social reckoning is about uh is Facebook's role in the rise of Facebook's role in the rise of Facebook's role in the rise of divisiveness, extremism, divisiveness, extremism, divisiveness, extremism, hyperartisanship. Uh it's about hyperartisanship. Uh it's about hyperartisanship. Uh it's about something a little different. But you something a little different. But you something a little different. But you know, I'm uh the settlement is a great know, I'm uh the settlement is a great know, I'm uh the settlement is a great it's a step in the right direction. Uh I it's a step in the right direction. Uh I it's a step in the right direction. Uh I was listening to uh someone who's an was listening to uh someone who's an was listening to uh someone who's an expert uh the other day say expert uh the other day say expert uh the other day say this is a terrible problem that just got this is a terrible problem that just got this is a terrible problem that just got 5% better.

5% better. 5% better. >> Yeah. I I I'm not sure that the news um >> Yeah. I I I'm not sure that the news um >> Yeah. I I I'm not sure that the news um and the settlement does much for how it and the settlement does much for how it and the settlement does much for how it shapes us adults, right? Um which is shapes us adults, right? Um which is shapes us adults, right? Um which is this at the heart of your movie. And it this at the heart of your movie. And it this at the heart of your movie. And it does nothing for what the movie is does nothing for what the movie is does nothing for what the movie is about, which is uh uh that Facebook about, which is uh uh that Facebook about, which is uh uh that Facebook knowingly has been uh uh pumping knowingly has been uh uh pumping knowingly has been uh uh pumping material to you designed to make you material to you designed to make you material to you designed to make you angry because that's the stuff that angry because that's the stuff that angry because that's the stuff that you're going to reshare the most. And you're going to reshare the most. And you're going to reshare the most. And re-sharing is what keeps you uh re-sharing is what keeps you uh re-sharing is what keeps you uh scrolling. It's it's what keeps you scrolling. It's it's what keeps you scrolling. It's it's what keeps you engaged. engaged. engaged. >> So I'm assuming then that the news >> So I'm assuming then that the news >> So I'm assuming then that the news hasn't changed the way that you ended hasn't changed the way that you ended hasn't changed the way that you ended the film. the film. the film. >> No. >> No. >> No. No, No, No, >> I do wonder about how you tell the story >> I do wonder about how you tell the story >> I do wonder about how you tell the story of real events because too soon and you of real events because too soon and you of real events because too soon and you don't have the full context, too late don't have the full context, too late don't have the full context, too late and things have moved on and the story and things have moved on and the story and things have moved on and the story can feel dated. I mean, how do you think can feel dated. I mean, how do you think can feel dated. I mean, how do you think about that tension about when to kind of about that tension about when to kind of about that tension about when to kind of deploy deploy deploy um you know, a fictional accounting of um you know, a fictional accounting of um you know, a fictional accounting of real events?

real events? real events? >> What I want uh >> What I want uh >> What I want uh I'm not interested in I I don't want the I'm not interested in I I don't want the I'm not interested in I I don't want the movie or any movie I do to be timely. I movie or any movie I do to be timely. I movie or any movie I do to be timely. I I want it to be timeless. Uh I I don't I want it to be timeless. Uh I I don't I want it to be timeless. Uh I I don't want it to feel like it was ripped from want it to feel like it was ripped from want it to feel like it was ripped from uh yesterday's headlines. I want this uh yesterday's headlines. I want this uh yesterday's headlines. I want this movie to be just as good 10 20 years movie to be just as good 10 20 years movie to be just as good 10 20 years from now uh as it is when you see it in from now uh as it is when you see it in from now uh as it is when you see it in in October and November. Uh so uh I I in October and November. Uh so uh I I in October and November. Uh so uh I I mean I make decisions based on that. Uh, mean I make decisions based on that. Uh, mean I make decisions based on that. Uh, in fact, you asked me if we changed uh in fact, you asked me if we changed uh in fact, you asked me if we changed uh the end of the movie at all because of the end of the movie at all because of the end of the movie at all because of the settlement that was reached last the settlement that was reached last the settlement that was reached last week. Uh, a a couple of people at the week. Uh, a a couple of people at the week. Uh, a a couple of people at the studio had suggested, well, you should studio had suggested, well, you should studio had suggested, well, you should uh, you know, there's a postcript on the uh, you know, there's a postcript on the uh, you know, there's a postcript on the end of the film and and and you should end of the film and and and you should end of the film and and and you should put that there that uh uh that Meta put that there that uh uh that Meta put that there that uh uh that Meta settled for uh 17 point something uh settled for uh 17 point something uh settled for uh 17 point something uh billion dollars. And I I didn't do that billion dollars. And I I didn't do that billion dollars. And I I didn't do that because I didn't want it to feel like we because I didn't want it to feel like we because I didn't want it to feel like we just made the movie yesterday. uh uh and just made the movie yesterday. uh uh and just made the movie yesterday. uh uh and we reach these decisions. This is this we reach these decisions. This is this we reach these decisions. This is this is a movie again that's going to work is a movie again that's going to work is a movie again that's going to work just as well years from now as it will just as well years from now as it will just as well years from now as it will when you see it. I have one more when you see it. I have one more when you see it. I have one more question about The Social um Reckoning.

question about The Social um Reckoning. question about The Social um Reckoning. You know, the first film, The Social You know, the first film, The Social You know, the first film, The Social Network, is widely considered to be one Network, is widely considered to be one Network, is widely considered to be one of the best films of the 2010s. Um just of the best films of the 2010s. Um just of the best films of the 2010s. Um just on everyone's list. The Social Reckoning on everyone's list. The Social Reckoning on everyone's list. The Social Reckoning is already getting some snark just with is already getting some snark just with is already getting some snark just with the trailers. the trailers. the trailers. >> Are you worried about the reception? >> Are you worried about the reception? >> Are you worried about the reception? >> No. Uh, am I worried about the reception >> No. Uh, am I worried about the reception >> No. Uh, am I worried about the reception of the trailer? of the trailer? of the trailer? >> No, just of the movie full stop. >> No, just of the movie full stop. >> No, just of the movie full stop. >> Of course, I'm worried about the >> Of course, I'm worried about the >> Of course, I'm worried about the reception of of everything that I do. reception of of everything that I do. reception of of everything that I do. Uh, uh, listen, Uh, uh, listen, Uh, uh, listen, the idea of the social network uh was the idea of the social network uh was the idea of the social network uh was also met with snark. I remember like also met with snark. I remember like also met with snark. I remember like word got out that I was working on this word got out that I was working on this word got out that I was working on this movie about Facebook. Um and uh people movie about Facebook. Um and uh people movie about Facebook. Um and uh people thought that it was going to be about thought that it was going to be about thought that it was going to be about Drew Barrymore and Paul Rudd falling in Drew Barrymore and Paul Rudd falling in Drew Barrymore and Paul Rudd falling in love uh you know over Facebook friending love uh you know over Facebook friending love uh you know over Facebook friending each other and and falling in love. Uh each other and and falling in love. Uh each other and and falling in love. Uh and uh we were able to leverage those and uh we were able to leverage those and uh we were able to leverage those low expectations. Um uh people were low expectations. Um uh people were low expectations. Um uh people were really surprised when they saw the movie really surprised when they saw the movie really surprised when they saw the movie and and saw what it was about. and and saw what it was about. and and saw what it was about. I understand that the social reckoning I understand that the social reckoning I understand that the social reckoning is living in the uh shadow uh of the is living in the uh shadow uh of the is living in the uh shadow uh of the social network. Uh but I I really social network. Uh but I I really social network. Uh but I I really believe that five or 10 minutes into the believe that five or 10 minutes into the believe that five or 10 minutes into the movie, you're going to have forgotten movie, you're going to have forgotten movie, you're going to have forgotten all about that and that you'll be all about that and that you'll be all about that and that you'll be engaged with what uh with with the engaged with what uh with with the engaged with what uh with with the movie.

movie. movie. >> Okay. I want to talk about a few of your >> Okay. I want to talk about a few of your >> Okay. I want to talk about a few of your upcoming projects. Um, [snorts] you're upcoming projects. Um, [snorts] you're upcoming projects. Um, [snorts] you're in New York right now uh for rehearsals in New York right now uh for rehearsals in New York right now uh for rehearsals of A Few Good Men on Broadway and that of A Few Good Men on Broadway and that of A Few Good Men on Broadway and that was of course the project that launched was of course the project that launched was of course the project that launched your career your career your career >> uh in your 20s. Um, and of course it >> uh in your 20s. Um, and of course it >> uh in your 20s. Um, and of course it started as a play that became the iconic started as a play that became the iconic started as a play that became the iconic movie. movie. movie. >> What do you think the play has to say >> What do you think the play has to say >> What do you think the play has to say about this moment now? you know, I uh about this moment now? you know, I uh about this moment now? you know, I uh there have been some opportunities uh in there have been some opportunities uh in there have been some opportunities uh in the past to do a Broadway revival of A the past to do a Broadway revival of A the past to do a Broadway revival of A Few Good Men. Uh and I've I've I've Few Good Men. Uh and I've I've I've Few Good Men. Uh and I've I've I've passed on those opportunities. passed on those opportunities. passed on those opportunities. Uh mostly because Uh mostly because Uh mostly because uh A Few Good Men was my first play. Uh uh A Few Good Men was my first play. Uh uh A Few Good Men was my first play. Uh I was very young when I wrote it. Uh it I was very young when I wrote it. Uh it I was very young when I wrote it. Uh it was my my starter play. I kind of had to was my my starter play. I kind of had to was my my starter play. I kind of had to learn on the job. And I look at the play learn on the job. And I look at the play learn on the job. And I look at the play now, I have great memories of doing it, now, I have great memories of doing it, now, I have great memories of doing it, but I look at the play now the way most but I look at the play now the way most but I look at the play now the way most of us look at our high school yearbook of us look at our high school yearbook of us look at our high school yearbook picture. Um I I I can do better. Uh and picture. Um I I I can do better. Uh and picture. Um I I I can do better. Uh and and so that's why I've passed. This and so that's why I've passed. This and so that's why I've passed. This opportunity came along and I grabbed at opportunity came along and I grabbed at opportunity came along and I grabbed at it for a couple of reasons. Number one, it for a couple of reasons. Number one, it for a couple of reasons. Number one, Michael Arden is directing it. Number Michael Arden is directing it. Number Michael Arden is directing it. Number two, uh I I had said, "All right, if we two, uh I I had said, "All right, if we two, uh I I had said, "All right, if we do it, I want to treat it as a new play.

do it, I want to treat it as a new play. do it, I want to treat it as a new play. I I want a chance to polish it. Uh, I I want a chance to polish it. Uh, I I want a chance to polish it. Uh, okay. I'm not gonna write a I can't okay. I'm not gonna write a I can't okay. I'm not gonna write a I can't write a brand new play, but let me go write a brand new play, but let me go write a brand new play, but let me go back and polish some of the clunkier back and polish some of the clunkier back and polish some of the clunkier dialogue and and and some of the areas dialogue and and and some of the areas dialogue and and and some of the areas where where I dropped the ball. And I've where where I dropped the ball. And I've where where I dropped the ball. And I've done that. And finally, there is done that. And finally, there is done that. And finally, there is suddenly a relevance uh uh to the story suddenly a relevance uh uh to the story suddenly a relevance uh uh to the story of two young Marines who are in or cart of two young Marines who are in or cart of two young Marines who are in or cart marshals for following an illegal order. marshals for following an illegal order. marshals for following an illegal order. Uh, you know, it was in the news. Mark Uh, you know, it was in the news. Mark Uh, you know, it was in the news. Mark Kelly, the senator, former shuttle Kelly, the senator, former shuttle Kelly, the senator, former shuttle pilot, and other members of Congress who pilot, and other members of Congress who pilot, and other members of Congress who are former officers, simply made a a PSA are former officers, simply made a a PSA are former officers, simply made a a PSA uh for service members, reminding them uh for service members, reminding them uh for service members, reminding them that they're not obligated to follow that they're not obligated to follow that they're not obligated to follow illegal orders. Not obligated. They're illegal orders. Not obligated. They're illegal orders. Not obligated. They're not permitted to uh follow illegal not permitted to uh follow illegal not permitted to uh follow illegal orders. And it's very difficult for an orders. And it's very difficult for an orders. And it's very difficult for an enlisted person because they're also enlisted person because they're also enlisted person because they're also required to follow orders. So, are these required to follow orders. So, are these required to follow orders. So, are these young people supposed to go to law young people supposed to go to law young people supposed to go to law school uh uh to figure out what an school uh uh to figure out what an school uh uh to figure out what an illegal order is? It's a tricky thing.

illegal order is? It's a tricky thing. illegal order is? It's a tricky thing. But suddenly, again, the story of a kind But suddenly, again, the story of a kind But suddenly, again, the story of a kind of psychopathic of psychopathic of psychopathic uh uh commander uh who gives this a a uh uh commander uh who gives this a a uh uh commander uh who gives this a a legal order uh is now relevant. legal order uh is now relevant. legal order uh is now relevant. >> I mean, you know, one way or another, we >> I mean, you know, one way or another, we >> I mean, you know, one way or another, we are sort of coming to the end of the are sort of coming to the end of the are sort of coming to the end of the Trump term and the Trump era. Um, Trump term and the Trump era. Um, Trump term and the Trump era. Um, and I was thinking about how much and I was thinking about how much and I was thinking about how much your, as we discussed, sort of your, as we discussed, sort of your, as we discussed, sort of fictionalization of of politics has fictionalization of of politics has fictionalization of of politics has permeated the way that we understand permeated the way that we understand permeated the way that we understand that world. Is there a politician who that world. Is there a politician who that world. Is there a politician who you find inspiring right now? you find inspiring right now? you find inspiring right now? >> Yeah. Uh, >> Yeah. Uh, >> Yeah. Uh, uh, I listen, I'm uh, James Tarico. Uh, uh, I listen, I'm uh, James Tarico. Uh, uh, I listen, I'm uh, James Tarico. Uh, I find inspiring. Uh I I I think if I find inspiring. Uh I I I think if I find inspiring. Uh I I I think if you're asking me is there anyone who's you're asking me is there anyone who's you're asking me is there anyone who's JFK inspiring? Uh no. Uh there isn't. JFK inspiring? Uh no. Uh there isn't. JFK inspiring? Uh no. Uh there isn't. [gasps] We're waiting uh uh for that [gasps] We're waiting uh uh for that [gasps] We're waiting uh uh for that person. Um I I don't care if they have a person. Um I I don't care if they have a person. Um I I don't care if they have a D or an R uh after their name. Um uh we D or an R uh after their name. Um uh we D or an R uh after their name. Um uh we are just are just are just dying of thirst for inspiration and dying of thirst for inspiration and dying of thirst for inspiration and leadership.

leadership. leadership. Um, last question which is this, uh, Um, last question which is this, uh, Um, last question which is this, uh, and it comes back to something we and it comes back to something we and it comes back to something we touched on at the beginning of our touched on at the beginning of our touched on at the beginning of our conversation, which is this idea of conversation, which is this idea of conversation, which is this idea of institutions and your reverence for them institutions and your reverence for them institutions and your reverence for them because one of the major currents in because one of the major currents in because one of the major currents in political life right now is this political life right now is this political life right now is this distrust of institutions, right? Um, distrust of institutions, right? Um, distrust of institutions, right? Um, you've said that you're romantic about you've said that you're romantic about you've said that you're romantic about the institutions of American democracy the institutions of American democracy the institutions of American democracy and it also brings me back to the social and it also brings me back to the social and it also brings me back to the social reckoning. I want to confess that reckoning. I want to confess that reckoning. I want to confess that watching the movie was a little bit watching the movie was a little bit watching the movie was a little bit disorienting because disorienting because disorienting because of its reverence for working within the of its reverence for working within the of its reverence for working within the system, Congress, the courts, system, Congress, the courts, system, Congress, the courts, journalism, right, to achieve this goal. journalism, right, to achieve this goal. journalism, right, to achieve this goal. And we're at this moment where people And we're at this moment where people And we're at this moment where people are angry at our institutions. They feel are angry at our institutions. They feel are angry at our institutions. They feel the system is rigged. Do you not despair the system is rigged. Do you not despair the system is rigged. Do you not despair sometimes though that you haven't that sometimes though that you haven't that sometimes though that you haven't that your reverence for something is your reverence for something is your reverence for something is misguided?

misguided? misguided? >> Uh it it may well be. Um uh you're not >> Uh it it may well be. Um uh you're not >> Uh it it may well be. Um uh you're not the first person who suggests that it it the first person who suggests that it it the first person who suggests that it it may well. may well. may well. >> I'm not suggesting it. I'm asking. >> I'm not suggesting it. I'm asking. >> I'm not suggesting it. I'm asking. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh um uh and and I it it may >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh um uh and and I it it may >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh um uh and and I it it may well be. But it well be. But it well be. But it what's the alternative? I mean, what what's the alternative? I mean, what what's the alternative? I mean, what what would I do? Uh if it was misguided, what would I do? Uh if it was misguided, what would I do? Uh if it was misguided, if I said, "Hey, these institutions are if I said, "Hey, these institutions are if I said, "Hey, these institutions are uh they're terrible. They're rigged." Uh uh they're terrible. They're rigged." Uh uh they're terrible. They're rigged." Uh what do we do? All we have are what do we do? All we have are what do we do? All we have are elections. elections. elections. That's the only time that uh I mean, That's the only time that uh I mean, That's the only time that uh I mean, other than taking to the streets, uh other than taking to the streets, uh other than taking to the streets, uh that's the only time that we get to that's the only time that we get to that's the only time that we get to raise our hand. Aaron Sorcin, I have raise our hand. Aaron Sorcin, I have raise our hand. Aaron Sorcin, I have really enjoyed this conversation. Thank really enjoyed this conversation. Thank really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your you so much. I really appreciate your you so much. I really appreciate your time. time. time. >> Thanks very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You bunch of pessimists. What is wrong >> You bunch of pessimists. What is wrong >> You bunch of pessimists. What is wrong with you? You cynics. with you? You cynics. with you? You cynics. >> Got to watch more of your work, you >> Got to watch more of your work, you >> Got to watch more of your work, you know? know? know? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. [gasps] [gasps] [gasps] >> Thank you for this. >> Thank you for this. >> Thank you for this. >> That's Aaron Sorcin. The Social >> That's Aaron Sorcin. The Social >> That's Aaron Sorcin. The Social Reckoning is in theaters October 9th. To Reckoning is in theaters October 9th. To Reckoning is in theaters October 9th. To watch this interview and many others, watch this interview and many others, watch this interview and many others, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel you can subscribe to our YouTube channel you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/syolthe [music] at youtube.com/syolthe [music] at youtube.com/syolthe [music] podcast. This interview was produced by podcast. This interview was produced by podcast. This interview was produced by Wyatt Orm. It was edited by John Woo. Wyatt Orm. It was edited by John Woo. Wyatt Orm. It was edited by John Woo. Mixing by Sophia Landman. Original music Mixing by Sophia Landman. Original music Mixing by Sophia Landman. Original music by Dan Powell, Rowan Neimto, and [music] by Dan Powell, Rowan Neimto, and [music] by Dan Powell, Rowan Neimto, and [music] Marian Lozano. Photography by Devon Marian Lozano. Photography by Devon Marian Lozano. Photography by Devon Yelin. The rest of the team is Pria Yelin. The rest of the team is Pria Yelin. The rest of the team is Pria Matthew, [music] Paola Neworf, Seth Matthew, [music] Paola Neworf, Seth Matthew, [music] Paola Neworf, Seth Kelly, Joe Mos, Eddie Costas, Jeremy Kelly, Joe Mos, Eddie Costas, Jeremy Kelly, Joe Mos, Eddie Costas, Jeremy Rocklin, Gabby Contraras, [music] Rocklin, Gabby Contraras, [music] Rocklin, Gabby Contraras, [music] Kathleen O'Brien, and Brook Winters. Our Kathleen O'Brien, and Brook Winters. Our Kathleen O'Brien, and Brook Winters. Our executive producer is Allison Benedict. executive producer is Allison Benedict. executive producer is Allison Benedict. [music] Next week, I speak with [music] Next week, I speak with [music] Next week, I speak with Sylvester Stallone, who has a new memoir Sylvester Stallone, who has a new memoir Sylvester Stallone, who has a new memoir that unpacks his brutal childhood that unpacks his brutal childhood that unpacks his brutal childhood [music] and the making of Rocky. I'm [music] and the making of Rocky. I'm [music] and the making of Rocky. I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro, and this is the Lulu Garcia Navaro, and this is the Lulu Garcia Navaro, and this is the interview from the New York Times.